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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jun 29, 2012 18:33:30 GMT -5
Vehicles- For movement, you can go 6in and fire one weapon, and make snap shots with other weapons (if they can make snap shots, of course). Cruising speed just allows snap shots. - I think that if a blast hits a vehicle, you resolve it at the full strength of the weapon regardless of the position of the marker, so you don't need to land that hole on your target per say. Take this with a grain of salt though, I'm not confident I'm reading it right. - Hull Points: Glancing hit docks a hull point. A pen hit docks a hull point, and triggers a roll on the damage table. Losing all your hull points means the vehicle is wrecked. - Damage Results. Shaken is a 1-2 now, and you can take snap shots while shaken. 3 is stunned, 4 is weapon destroyed, 5 is mobilized, 6 is kaboom. - Wrecked vehicles are 5+ cover. - Cover: If it's one model shooting at a vehicle, the vehicle needs to be 25% obscured to get a cover save. If it's being shot at by a squad, the vehicle needs to be in 25% cover from the perspective of the majority of models that can damage it. Area terrain still has to actually cover 25% of the vehicle. cover saves depend on the cover, but smoke is now a 5+ save. - Vehicles can't overwatch, and you can't charge a vehicle with infantry if the infantry can't at least glance it. - Hitting vehicles is now different. If a vehicle has moved, it counts as having WS 1. If it has not moved or is immobilized, it counts as WS 0. - Squadrons are less horrible! Immobilized units not drop out of the squadron instead of being destroyed. Also, you resolve hits against the closest model in a squadron when you charge or shoot at one. - Units inside transports are counted as fearless. Useful against psy powers or Gets Hot rolls. They can also fire snap shots at cruising speed, or if the vehicle is shaken. Also, units inside a transport can make an overwatch attack if their transport is being charged! - Flyers measure from the hull, not the base when doing most things, in case that was still an issue being debated. Assaulters may reach either the base or the hull (if they can reach the hull at all). - Not going to say too much about flyers, but they can shoot up to four weapons and full BS if they've moved at combat or cruising speed (which are 18 or 36in, respectively while in zoom mode). They also have something called a "Zoom" mode, and have some slight modifications to the basic damage table. - Why the crap is there a section about chariots in here? I'm skipping over the walker section for now. Have to leave some secrets unsaid. @alazar: Your returns stopped being glorious once they started happening to or three times a year. Reds -
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Jun 29, 2012 19:25:47 GMT -5
Glanced = hp removed... I foresee many, many scarab swarms.
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Post by Kaikelx on Jun 29, 2012 19:38:15 GMT -5
Hrm....Is it just me, or can't Tau firewarriors (Or maybe I'm thinking of Necrons) glance with their basic weapons? I guess it just depends on the number of hull points. Also, I enjoy Red's (Reds'?) typo where a damage result is that the unit gets mobilized. I pictured two Ork clans fighting, and one accidentally fixes the other's vehicle from weapons fire
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jun 29, 2012 20:29:03 GMT -5
My initial impression is that the game overall is more complex, but in a way that actually adds some depth rather than just being needlessly fiddly. I like the idea of snap shots (at least in theory), and overwatch, although I think assault-heavy armies might get punished pretty heavily for taking small squads. I'm on the fence about Hull Points until I see it in action, and I don't like the wound allocation system, same with challenges. I think it's needlessly slow without offering any real benefit to game play. I do like the warlord stuff, and I like the principle of allies, even though I think it will be promptly and thoroughly broken (especially by me), and I wish they'd made it harder to take units from allies who are desperate. I also enjoy that they added a handful of "new" missions instead of the basic three.
I maintain my position of cautious optimism, pending several games to test the rules.
Reds
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Post by dangerrod on Jun 30, 2012 2:44:13 GMT -5
Just spent a good four hours going thruogh the new ruleboook (skipped some parts)
From what I can tell its definatley a more in depth game in a logical sense. I like the new hull points and the emergency diembarkation rules plus the new/improved rules for squadrons.
The changes to Gets Hot USR could be bad for the Executioner tank, a couple of bad rolls and there goes 200+ points!!
Also noticed that the Nids Impailer Cannon doesnt get the Skyfire USR, which makes me happy (unless it gets FAQ'd later)
As what Reds said, I'm not a fan (so far) of the challenge system, seems a bit too complicated and may draw out the assault pahse a bit too much.
Should be getting a game in a few weeks to try out the new rules, hmm to add and Aegis Defence line with a Quad Gun or not???
Danger Rod
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Post by treadiculous on Jun 30, 2012 12:51:02 GMT -5
It interesting what has happened to furocious charge.. Orks are a bit nerfed in close combat but a shooty ork army should be a bit more potent now.
Rage is also quite different, making tyranid players happier I should think. I guess I'll need to read all the related FAQ and Errata.
Is there to be a General 6th Ed discussion thread or will it all be put into the IG 6th Ed thread, or continue to be discussed here?
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Jun 30, 2012 13:29:39 GMT -5
Orks should not be a primarily shooty army. It just doesn't feel right.
And I'm still on the fence about giving melee weapons an AP value.
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Post by Peter Cooman on Jun 30, 2012 13:40:34 GMT -5
I don't like the fact that power weapons are only ap 3. The main difference between power fists and power swords is that you get double strength with the fist. That was a big enough difference already.
Power blobs are actually worse now. It would be good if you could ,say, have a commisar with a fist in the power blob, but alas our codex does not allow that.
Good news is they fixed the chaos dreadnought!!!!! Just read the faq's, and instead of shooting your own men half of the time, he now charges the opponent half of the time!!!! SWEET!
I mean, i like dreadnoughts, but don't want vanilla marines. So the only one i could take was for my black legion. But i don't wanna shoot my guys!! unless it is in the back of the head, with a commisar
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Hookah, S.C.
Colonel
Mostly Harmless
25%
But what if I put more plasma on it?
Posts: 390
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Post by Hookah, S.C. on Jun 30, 2012 15:18:41 GMT -5
Just spent a good four hours going thruogh the new ruleboook (skipped some parts) From what I can tell its definatley a more in depth game in a logical sense. I like the new hull points and the emergency diembarkation rules plus the new/improved rules for squadrons. The changes to Gets Hot USR could be bad for the Executioner tank, a couple of bad rolls and there goes 200+ points!! Also noticed that the Nids Impailer Cannon doesnt get the Skyfire USR, which makes me happy (unless it gets FAQ'd later) As what Reds said, I'm not a fan (so far) of the challenge system, seems a bit too complicated and may draw out the assault pahse a bit too much. Should be getting a game in a few weeks to try out the new rules, hmm to add and Aegis Defence line with a Quad Gun or not??? Danger Rod Executioner Plasma Cannon doesn't have the 'It get's hot' USR (unless has been changed in the rule book) @ Reds, The chariots are probably for the Tomb Kings Necrons.
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Post by Peter Cooman on Jun 30, 2012 15:52:54 GMT -5
I'm guessing the chariots are for deamons of chaos. REpresenting the palanquin of nurgle. My guesses are mostly wrong
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Post by Trooper One-Nine-Seven-Four on Jun 30, 2012 17:35:02 GMT -5
The changes to Gets Hot USR could be bad for the Executioner tank, a couple of bad rolls and there goes 200+ points!! Executioner Plasma Cannon doesn't have the 'It get's hot' USR (unless has been changed in the rule book) From rumors I've heard vehicle/walker-mounted plasma weapons now all do suffer from "Gets Hot". IIRC they inflict a glancing hit on the vehicle if they overheat... Still waiting to get my hands on the rulebook--I got the gamer's edition, and the comic shop didn't receive the shipment with those in it, but did get the regular edition. Massive storms last night that knocked out power to pretty much the entire D.C. area didn't seem to help. <.< >.>
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Post by Empirespy on Jun 30, 2012 17:49:13 GMT -5
I'm guessing the chariots are for deamons of chaos. REpresenting the palanquin of nurgle. My guesses are mostly wrong More likely a chariot of khorne or slannesh or tzeench, as far as I'm aware there isn't a bugle chariot just the palanquin which is a mount.
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Post by treadiculous on Jun 30, 2012 18:14:40 GMT -5
Looking through I get a sense that smaller games will have a greater sense of realism, but that larger games may be bogged down by the increase in complexity. (much like before then.. except more so).
I like the layout of the rules in the book, it seems to be a lot easier to gather the information required (though I am yet to put it to the test) - this is mainly because they lumped all the specail rules into one big area (kinda like a much more inclusive USR section of the 5th ed, with wargear rules immediatly after it).
I note that in the FAQ for Tyranids - Instinctive Beahvior: Rage, the Nids cannot shoot while... FAQ for Blood Angels: Rage - there is no difference to the ruling in the 6th ed USR.
I guess instinctive behaviour had to have some downside...
I don't see that Orks are likely to become shooty armies, it is more that they were created with a lack of accuarcy in mind when making the wargear balanced to their race..
with 'snap' shots hitting on 6 only, snap shots are as bad for orks as marines - but marines wargear balance had been designed round the idea that marines could shoot straight.
Some of the artwork is new and very cool... I'm yet to read the fluff and am trepidatious (if I spelt / used that right).
Iwould like to see a plastic hydra coming out soon as these are very handy now!
I feel the 6th ed is designed so that a number of its more complicated features can be ignored all together. I guess this will put more into the hands of tournament organisers as to what they include on the tables (ie - random terrain and objectives with bonus's).
I think in friendly games they have noted down a good number of concepts that will make games varied and interesting, but I wouldn't want a tournament game to be won because of a random achaeotech artifact or a lucky combination of Warlord traits and Army list.
One area I am dissapointed is that assault ranges are random now - albeit mainly 2D6.. this takes away from planning and puts much more in the hands of luck.. almost too much to feel in control of the action anymore.
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Post by Trooper One-Nine-Seven-Four on Jun 30, 2012 18:21:33 GMT -5
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Post by treadiculous on Jun 30, 2012 18:32:07 GMT -5
yeah.. like how frequently could those questions have been asked in one day?
amd while 450 pages is cool.. its bloody heavy to hold and read for any length of time!
(I can see skinny 12 year olds suffering tonight as they slowly get crushed beneath their book; its weight forcing all the air from thier lungs and competly ceasing the ability of the diaphram to function).
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Post by Trooper One-Nine-Seven-Four on Jun 30, 2012 18:47:18 GMT -5
I can officially say that I am now regretting not giving my Triarch Praetorians Rods of Covenant, as according to the Necron FAQ they are +1S and AP2 in close combat... Warscythes are +2S and AP1! I may have to build some more units of TPs and Lychguard...
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Post by dangerrod on Jun 30, 2012 19:11:40 GMT -5
Just spent a good four hours going thruogh the new ruleboook (skipped some parts) From what I can tell its definatley a more in depth game in a logical sense. I like the new hull points and the emergency diembarkation rules plus the new/improved rules for squadrons. The changes to Gets Hot USR could be bad for the Executioner tank, a couple of bad rolls and there goes 200+ points!! Also noticed that the Nids Impailer Cannon doesnt get the Skyfire USR, which makes me happy (unless it gets FAQ'd later) As what Reds said, I'm not a fan (so far) of the challenge system, seems a bit too complicated and may draw out the assault pahse a bit too much. Should be getting a game in a few weeks to try out the new rules, hmm to add and Aegis Defence line with a Quad Gun or not??? Danger Rod Executioner Plasma Cannon doesn't have the 'It get's hot' USR (unless has been changed in the rule book) @ Reds, The chariots are probably for the Tomb Kings Necrons. Well noticed! Thank F***! Sponson mounted Plasma Cannons do tho
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Jun 30, 2012 20:40:41 GMT -5
It took two editions, but my custom dual-pistol SM captain is now fully functional.
And I notice the random love given out to the psychoneuein...
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Post by Julian Sharps on Jun 30, 2012 20:42:14 GMT -5
Having played a game with the new ruleset, I must say that most of my misgivings about 6th edition were either unfounded or abated, at least until I have more experience with the new changes.
Some of my realizations: - Reaver Jetbikes are still the best non-special-character bike unit in the game, and thanks to the changes to the Eldar Jetbike unit type and the Skilled Rider USR, they're even better than ever (a total turboboost range of 48," their jinking cover save is more available and in some ways better (4+ if they move, 3+ if they turboboost), and they ignore Dangerous Terrain entirely). - Being shaken isn't nearly as bad as it used to be; you can still shoot, albeit at BS 1. - The new vehicle damage system was a good move, in my opinion. While glancing hits are more powerful, it still takes more than one to completely ruin your day, and multi-meltas blow Raiders out of the sky just as easily as they always have done. - The new wound allocation system is just as fast as the old one, it makes more sense logically and it makes one think about unit placement more. Everybody wins. - Overwatch is a nice touch, and a nice disincentive to assault (especially multi-assault), but isn't the whole "wipe out all attackers" thing some have been worried about (Wyches multi-assault 5 Nobs and 5 Terminators, only one died from Overwatch fire). - Still angry that most power weapons are only AP 3; there is now no justification for Agonizers costing 20 points each when they barely put a dent in Terminators anymore. I'll only continue to take them because they're still better than Power Weapons. - Warlord bonuses are fun, and can add a nice amount of flavor to the game without becoming too overpowering. However, I wish that you could roll first, and then decide which chart to pick from. - Wound Allocation in the Assault Phase is really cool, see previous point about Wound Allocation. - The standard missions are fun, the deployment options are pretty neat (although I wish they had kept Spearhead), and I like how most of them seem to have secondary objectives as well.
So, while there's some bad and ugly, most of what I've seen so far would have to fall into the "good" category. I'll still have to play about 19 more games before I can be absolutely sure, though.
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Hookah, S.C.
Colonel
Mostly Harmless
25%
But what if I put more plasma on it?
Posts: 390
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Post by Hookah, S.C. on Jul 1, 2012 4:54:58 GMT -5
Executioner Plasma Cannon doesn't have the 'It get's hot' USR (unless has been changed in the rule book) From rumors I've heard vehicle/walker-mounted plasma weapons now all do suffer from "Gets Hot". IIRC they inflict a glancing hit on the vehicle if they overheat... Still waiting to get my hands on the rulebook--I got the gamer's edition, and the comic shop didn't receive the shipment with those in it, but did get the regular edition. Massive storms last night that knocked out power to pretty much the entire D.C. area didn't seem to help. <.< >.> I hope not, since I like to put plasma on everything I can. Now if only we could have Plasma Cannon HWTs....
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Post by vegna on Jul 1, 2012 10:51:48 GMT -5
well i think we're gonna lose a lot of points via plasma now. medics reduced to 5+ so not much cop, if their adding it to vehicles then their likely to take a few hits :/ lucky i only have an armoured sentinel with a plasma weapon.
are all vehicles in the rulebook for their profiles and hull points?
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Hookah, S.C.
Colonel
Mostly Harmless
25%
But what if I put more plasma on it?
Posts: 390
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Post by Hookah, S.C. on Jul 1, 2012 11:54:51 GMT -5
If someone would be nice and could check that out plox.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Jul 3, 2012 9:14:06 GMT -5
I think it's in apendix II or the rulebook.
Reds
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Pyrotechnics
Captain
Let the promethium burn it to a cinder!
Posts: 238
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Post by Pyrotechnics on Jul 4, 2012 19:25:54 GMT -5
If anyone was still in doubt that Dark Angels are going to be the new starter army, don't be. My warhammer supplier let slip that they are when they were looking for a replacement for the space marines I ordered.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Jul 4, 2012 19:29:53 GMT -5
I'd like to think that that means that ravenwing will increase in awesomeness. But I don't hope for it.
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