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Post by Trooper One-Nine-Seven-Four on Apr 11, 2014 15:07:31 GMT -5
You can now take as many Commissars as you have CCS and PCS, and then they are assigned to units after Warlord Traits are determined. 1 Commissar may join each of the following units: CCS, PCS, Infantry Squad, SWS, HWS, Conscripts, Vets, Ogryns, Bullgryns, Stormy Command Squad, Stormy Squad. Don't take up a force org slot, and don't count as mandatory HQs.
Priests, Primaris Psykers, Engineseers are 0 - 3 (for each type), don't take up force org slots, and aren't counted as mandatory HQs.
Veteran squads can take a vox caster, so it seems we may now issue orders to them as the vox caster allows for re-roll of failed orders...
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Post by Trooper One-Nine-Seven-Four on Apr 11, 2014 15:09:36 GMT -5
For DS stormies, whats better then a SCS w/ 4 meltaguns popping up beside you saying whats up? along with 3x 5 man squads with melta/plasma Especially if you get something with an Augur Array near to what you want them to kill and within the 6" no-deviation bubble it gives...
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Post by Comrade on Apr 11, 2014 15:11:39 GMT -5
For DS stormies, whats better then a SCS w/ 4 meltaguns popping up beside you saying whats up? along with 3x 5 man squads with melta/plasma Especially if you get something with an Augur Array near to what you want them to kill and within the 6" no-deviation bubble it gives... such as say a scout sent w/ augur relay?
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Post by Trooper One-Nine-Seven-Four on Apr 11, 2014 15:24:35 GMT -5
Especially if you get something with an Augur Array near to what you want them to kill and within the 6" no-deviation bubble it gives... such as say a scout sent w/ augur relay? They can take them... So can Armored Sentinels, Hellhounds (and variants), any Dedicated Transport, any Russ, as well as all of the Chimera-chassis artillery pieces. Valks and Vendettas can't though.
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Post by Comrade on Apr 11, 2014 15:29:59 GMT -5
yes but those don't outflank.
Ogryns are still lackluster
Straken cost increase is sad
why does the LRMBT standard still cost the same? and the demolisher got 5 pts more expensive?
Vanquisher + Lascannons + multi melta sponsons = death to vehicles and MCs for 165 pts
hydra is worth less now then in the last dex
hell hound and varients are pretty much exactly the same
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Post by yvain on Apr 11, 2014 16:16:26 GMT -5
yes but those don't outflank. Ogryns are still lackluster Straken cost increase is sad why does the LRMBT standard still cost the same? and the demolisher got 5 pts more expensive? Vanquisher + Lascannons + multi melta sponsons = death to vehicles and MCs for 165 pts hydra is worth less now then in the last dex hell hound and varients are pretty much exactly the same I think the 4 Melta Storm Command Squad is over kill. Better to do two smaller units and count on the back up Krak Grenade. Scout Sent outflank is a bad idea for auger, he will never get in good position in time. He might not even make the board. Maybe with scout behind a good piece of terrain. I think our best bet is with something like a Leman Russ, using the order to flat out he can get into a good spot and take the punishment required to survive. It is also worth pointing out, you can deep strike 6 inches away with allies as well. I don't like they way they are designing Straken, but I think he has become a monster. With smash and counter attack he now gets three Str 10 ap 2 hits at INT 3 regardless of if he charges. He will destroy anything in CC. I think a priest, MOO, and 3 snipers plus medipack and will make the ultimate counter charge unit. He just needs a ride.
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Post by Trickstick on Apr 11, 2014 18:30:04 GMT -5
This would be perfect on a t-shirt, with a picture of a diagonal heavy bolter. I am looking forward to picking up my codex tomorrow (technically today I suppose, being 00:30).
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Post by Trooper One-Nine-Seven-Four on Apr 11, 2014 19:39:54 GMT -5
ERMG... PASSSSSSSSSSSSKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!!! His Crack Shot... Crack Shot... So much Crack Shot... Depending on what type of Russ Pask is in here's what happens: Battle, Vanquisher, Demolisher, Nova cannons get re-roll to hit. Exterminator AC or Punisher Gatling cannon get rending. Executioner cannon gets a supercharged shot, 36" S7 AP2, heavy 1, large blast, blind, gets hot. All weapons on Pask's tank get to re-roll armor penetration results against vehicles for both glancing and penetrating hits, but the re-roll must be kept.
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Post by glutebite on Apr 11, 2014 19:43:16 GMT -5
So can you take Augur on the Hellhounds?
When does deep strike occur? Is that before movement or during movement phase? If during you could move a fast vehicle (Hellhound's, etc) and then do Deep Strike within 6"?
That doesn't sound legal.. but sure would be nice.... hehe.
The rule leaks are making me excited.. Get my codex tomorrow and can't wait to start figuring out what I'm going to do.
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Post by Trooper One-Nine-Seven-Four on Apr 11, 2014 19:45:41 GMT -5
That's a good question about when Deep Strike happens. Someone who has gotten to actually play 6th edition may be able to answer it.
I've got to say that while we have lost some things, others have been buffed. Oh, and on the fluff side, it seems like while there's less overall general fluff, the fluff has been expanded in the unit description sections for each unit, tank, special character.
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Post by Trooper One-Nine-Seven-Four on Apr 11, 2014 19:55:12 GMT -5
Oh and I think at this point Gunny O'Grady can edit the title of the thread to take out the "(unconfirmed)" and perhaps "Leak" as well, since I and others are reporting from actual books in our hands now, and perhaps replace them with "Discussion (confirmed)" because now we know, and knowing is half the battle!
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Post by yvain on Apr 11, 2014 20:48:17 GMT -5
So can you take Augur on the Hellhounds? When does deep strike occur? Is that before movement or during movement phase? If during you could move a fast vehicle (Hellhound's, etc) and then do Deep Strike within 6"? That doesn't sound legal.. but sure would be nice.... hehe. The rule leaks are making me excited.. Get my codex tomorrow and can't wait to start figuring out what I'm going to do. You can take an Augur on a hellhound. Deep Strike occurs after reserves are rolled. So turn one you complete your move. At that point you need to be in position then if you get a three plus you deep strike before Turn 2 movement phase. Basically you want an Auger on a short bus prime, hellhound, or a Leman Russ Commander to take full advantage of it. Hellhound is .5 ratling cheaper and so is the MM upgrade. The hellhound is kind of pointless now because the Eradicator is .5 ratling cheaper and basically does the job better. You have a longer range large blast that ignores cover with the damage same profile. The only advantage the HH has is the fast which can be gotten by making it a tank commander and using the order. For two ratlings you can take MM sponsons making it even better. The other two variants are pretty much useless because of the LR changes as well.
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Post by Trooper One-Nine-Seven-Four on Apr 11, 2014 21:26:40 GMT -5
The Augur Array has to be on the board at the start of the turn that you want to try using it too, so yeah putting it on Out Flankers would not be good. I'm definitely feeling it'd be better to put it on something that can Scout into cover and set up a 12" bubble of "Come at me bro!" or on something that can move up fast on Turn 1 and claim a spot to camp on, or something durable enough to get there over several turns, and also take the Fleet Officer so you can modify your Reserve rolls.
I'm thinking about converting some Chimeras with wheels to be counts as Tauroxes, and getting some use out of my old FW Chimera AC turrets and calling them the Taurox battle cannon. While it has no command vehicle rule so officers can't give orders from it, the 10 model transport capacity plus a fire point on each side along with the ability to re-roll all dangerous terrain tests (and be fast for the Prime) open up come interesting possibilities, but the model is so atrocious looking that I can't justify ever owning one. Although I may want to snaffle turret and Gatling Gun parts once they go up on bits sites to also make a Prime out of a Chimera (or possibly the Taurox battle cannon just because it might look neat).
Chimeras seem even better than they used to the past several editions (and they've always been useful), now that the hull lasguns can actually be fired by six passengers (three to a side) and at different targets (although each triple gun set has to fire its own target) than the Chimera's other weapons, plus still being able to shoot out of the top hatch--kinda getting back to what it was like in 2nd edition. Also, replacing the Chimera's stock turret and hull mounted weapons are free all around, and it still carries 12 models.
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Post by yvain on Apr 11, 2014 22:18:09 GMT -5
Having watched a few unboxing videos about the Taurox, its appearance is no where near as bad as previously though. In fact, I have mostly changed my mind about it. Its not that tall and kind of not quite as stubby. In addition, if you don't take all the bling on it, it kind of does resemble an MRAP. Take a peak at the GW website entry www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Taurox look at the second picture with the auto cannon turret on top. God damn that front tread though.... The point I am trying to make is that it is not "terrible" and it would take some conversion work to get a good plan in place. Someone has to figure out some wheels on the front of that thing. There is only one guy who can get this job done. Cue 80s montage The rules still are not that great. And really I think the way to go with it is naked 50 point version holding objective grabbers behind chimeras. It is so lightly armored if it blows up it is killing your own guys in addition to losing all the weapon upgrades. The prime could be useful as the Auger vehicle with some camo nets. Just drive that puppy straight into some ruins and +3 your way to stormtroopers. Chimera is still a slight nerf. Though the rules do make more sense. It should have never gotten points added on. And the shortbuses should be slightly cheaper.
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Post by Gunny O'Grady on Apr 11, 2014 22:24:43 GMT -5
Thread Title Edited. I've been hearing this notion that blob-guard are going to be the next big thing for IG. Because of the ready availability of allies and the wide range of buffs that they give (invulns, divination, etc.), blobbing our squads will give more models the chance to use those special rules. That's not even to mention the excellent warlord traits and orders that we gained. Also, I foresee a need to bubblewrap more than ever, what with the Leman Russ lists that I assume we'll see in the coming months. EDIT: And I'm already getting the wheels turning on a Straken-Star list. Viable? -Gunny
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Post by gamma016 on Apr 12, 2014 0:05:37 GMT -5
EDIT: And I'm already getting the wheels turning on a Straken-Star list. Viable? -Gunny I was hoping for the same thing also something like a pask star, pask in a vanquisher, followed by two plasmacutioners. Follow them around with a PBS to give them prescience for those nasty get's hots. Have pask split fire on vehicles, rerolling to hit, and rerolling the 2d6 armour pens, that's death to tanks.
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Post by Gunny O'Grady on Apr 12, 2014 0:21:14 GMT -5
EDIT: And I'm already getting the wheels turning on a Straken-Star list. Viable? -Gunny I was hoping for the same thing also something like a pask star, pask in a vanquisher, followed by two plasmacutioners. Follow them around with a PBS to give them prescience for those nasty get's hots. Have pask split fire on vehicles, rerolling to hit, and rerolling the 2d6 armour pens, that's death to tanks. Perhaps doubling them up? Bubblewrap the Pask-Star with the Straken-Star? I suppose the idea would be for Straken and his blob to run zone-defense for Pask's Squadron: opponents would have to risk getting close with meltas/grenades (and have to get through Straken), or try to outshoot the tanks through the blob-squad. Effective? Maybe. Point-sink? Definitely. -Gunny.
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Post by Julian Sharps on Apr 12, 2014 2:29:12 GMT -5
I've been hearing this notion that blob-guard are going to be the next big thing for IG. Really? I figured that with all of the incentives to take Russes in squadrons (as well as the points drop on most variants), as well as the Chimera's stealth buff, this codex was going to be the MOAR TANKS edition. I'm surprised that a Russ wasn't the focus of the cover.
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Post by Comrade on Apr 12, 2014 3:57:23 GMT -5
Appears the 10 point decrease to vets was the loss of Krak Grenades.
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Post by yvain on Apr 12, 2014 6:40:27 GMT -5
I was hoping for the same thing also something like a pask star, pask in a vanquisher, followed by two plasmacutioners. Follow them around with a PBS to give them prescience for those nasty get's hots. Have pask split fire on vehicles, rerolling to hit, and rerolling the 2d6 armour pens, that's death to tanks. Perhaps doubling them up? Bubblewrap the Pask-Star with the Straken-Star? I suppose the idea would be for Straken and his blob to run zone-defense for Pask's Squadron: opponents would have to risk getting close with meltas/grenades (and have to get through Straken), or try to outshoot the tanks through the blob-squad. Effective? Maybe. Point-sink? Definitely. -Gunny. I don't think there is any way to make a true star out of Straken. His advantage is CC power, but his squad will never be that durable or invincible. Nor can it ever reach the speeds of the Eldar or Daemon stars. If Straken can catch a Seer council the chances are he will win combat and possibly weaken theirs before they Hit and Run away. He will fair poorly against the screamer star. Luckily you have orders and mass lasguns to try to kill fateweaver before that happens. I think you are better off reversing your plan. Take a strong tank with Pask and 2 Eradicators with camo nets and then put them in front. Use them as a breach force and have them drop smoke to survive. I think every army will have a hard time dealing with 3 LR who have a cover save of +5 in the open. One of those tanks is bound to survive. This gives time for Straken and his supporting squads to get into place while giving Pask some buffers to ensure his survival. Once all the troops catch up he will have too much to deal with especially if one or two of the Eradicators survive as well.
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Post by cheminhaler on Apr 12, 2014 13:54:05 GMT -5
You could take bodyguards and all the advisors but it might be cheaper just getting him a basic infantry squad to bubblewrap him.
I can't buy the codex this week; Gah!
But when I do I'll cover over all the pics of that ISB - thing...
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Post by Gunny O'Grady on Apr 12, 2014 17:41:41 GMT -5
My Codex is on the way! So excited!
Reflecting on it, I think Straken Star is ultimately too squishy. T3 just does not a Deathstar make. So can Pask bring home the bacon for us in the Deathstar meta?
The way it seems to me is that guard has always been great at sitting and shooting, mediocre at moving around/mobility, and crap in assault. I think this codex doesn't do anything to change that.
What kind of allies will help us with that, then? Some kind of Battle Brother with a lot of mobility and at least decent assault survivability, I imagine.
Also I'm worried about our anti-tank. Deep Striking Melta-squads seems risky and non-redundant (Guard's main insurance policy), and compared to even Tau, it seems our long range AT isn't stacking up. Thoughts about what AT and anti-Monstrous Creature stuff you guys are seeing?
@ Julian Sharps -- I suppose I meant that the necessity to blob squads has been made higher. I totally agree that tanks (and their Dakka) will be the backbone of new Guard, but with all the chance to buff in the new meta, we can take the greatest advantage by blobbing our infantry up.
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Post by yvain on Apr 12, 2014 18:21:13 GMT -5
I think Straken still be good he is just not a deathstar.
Guard has lost mobility. We lost the two best options with marbo and special operations stromtroopers. However, it did get a few new tricks. I was brain storming while flipping though the new book. The shortbus may be better than I thought. Word is that it is a short and thin model. If you take a few shortbus primes and load one up with three bullgyrns and a priest and equip all with camo nets. Then fast move them as far as possible straight into through and into cover, which you can do with the free reroll. Unload the Bullgryns in front and now you get 2 addition points to cover total. If you parked in ruins the shortbus has a 2+ cover save while firing its s7 ap 4 blast and 4 str 4 ap 3 shots. That doesn't even count the guys inside. Give on of those buses and auger and your storm troopers are in as well.
The options are there they are just different. I am still holding out for a Catachan supplement. For now, I rely on Raptor Space Marines to do my outflanking al la Raven Guard rules.
I also think our anti tank will be okay. Vanquishers with lascannons and multi-meltas is almost the same price as a Vanquisher in the last codex. With diviniation everywhere, that is a lot of shot hit with one tank. In addition, the Vendetta though nerfed still exists and is still awesome. Your ordanance artillery is still a great Tank hunter as well. For MCs, we have Punishers and Executioners which have reduced price. You can take two of one type and it comes out to around the same price as the OP MCs from other books.
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Post by Trooper One-Nine-Seven-Four on Apr 12, 2014 20:17:34 GMT -5
Thing is the Prime is only available for Stormies to use, IIRC. So you'd have to faff about for a turn getting the other unit onboard before being able to move out, since another unit can't start the game in another unit's Dedicated Transport--or am I remembering this incorrectly?
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Post by Gunny O'Grady on Apr 12, 2014 20:23:14 GMT -5
@ Yvain -- I had my wheels turning on the Taurox as well. I don't want to call it a Taurox spam, but I could almost see an MSU list with their fastness and terrain adeptness working exactly like you said. I hadn't even thought of the bullgryns being used that way, though. Very cool synergistic effect with the bullgryn, Taurox, auger, scion combo.
Where does the regular Leman Russ fit into all of this? We've got a lot of new Dakka to play with, but the battlecannon with AV14 chassis never did me wrong. Is the plain-Jane Russ not specialized enough, though? Personally, I think a Tank Command Squadron with 2 or 3 regular Russes could be very potent -- psychologically if not practically.
-Gunny
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