|
Post by Rolling Thunder on Oct 4, 2007 11:22:31 GMT -5
Now, I shall state this categorically, I have no idea when the new IG codex will be released. This is just a general interest section where I would like people to post their ideas and suggestions on how Games workshop might improve the imperial guard.
Also, please do not make accusations or comments about GW without justifying them entirely and sanely.
Thanking you for your thoughts
Rolling Thunder
|
|
|
Post by Commissar on Oct 4, 2007 12:19:21 GMT -5
Slightly more powerful lasguns. Improved commissars. More tank upgrades. More heroes. More weapons in the armoury. More stuff like that.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2007 16:57:19 GMT -5
I think we should have slightly stronger troops and more tank choises I feel as though super long rang, medium and sort and strong is horible choice.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2007 23:15:32 GMT -5
i would like to see some sort of actual close combat squad instead of adding heck load of points to forgo all of your lasguns in your platoons.
maybe even give the lasgun an ap value and make the hellgun a little bit better than what it is now. make the vox web free, cheapen ogryns.
cheaper armoury. for god sakes we have the entire munitorium behind us a power sword should be like 1 point considering the officer is never going to last that much longer in cc.
give the chimera a better front value and make the basilisk a closed top vehicle and make the baneblade cheaper in dollars!
|
|
|
Post by ssgtdude (M.I.A) on Oct 4, 2007 23:48:26 GMT -5
First off, I know it is the duty of every guardsmen to die.
The one thing that I see that truly needs changed is the leaderships. We get a 12" re-roll if there is a regimental Banner on board, yet the marines get to roll off their chapter master so long as he is on the board.
If we have improved comms we should get to use the banner abilities.
This came up because of the way many armies are able to outnumber the individual squads (multi wound models in force on hth forcing failed combats and routs rolls)
Re-work the independent character rules for guards. If an independent character is in a squad then the squad gets to participate in combat so long as they are within 2" of the independent charcters base. Too many armies (including NID) are forcing combat on the independent character and the squad sits picking their nose because of the rule for independent character says they can't fight. What is the use of being able to give your vets special armory gear if they can't use it?
Is this beardy? You bet your chapped backside it is. How would you like to go up against a squad of nid warriors and they line up so that the HSO is the only one they are in base to base with.
While they are at it. Give us something that we can compete with the High Initiative armies out there. Guard should be able to prepare their field of battle and choose where their battles are more than others. Such as allowing to set up mine fields, prior to battle. I'm willing to have it as a vehicle upgrade (mine layer or Merv missles). the Asartes Tactica teaches us to corral the enemy and force them to go into the direction where they are easier to handle. How can we do that effectively when every army out there has intitiatives higher than most.
rework the penalties for guard for being outnumbered in combat. They are guards men they are always outnumbered and have carboard armor. they know it. Why would they break combat over it? It is their job to die in combat to delay a troop or opponents troop choice just a bit longer. (I swear that in the last game I went up against the nid he had my Ld down to a 2 or below else they break. [unit below 50%, zorenthrope, outnumbered, and he only had 4 models to my five], monsterous creature, give weapon teams ability to upgrade to vets. The sit and fire a heavy weapon all freaking day why wouldn't they have a a higher ws??
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2007 0:03:46 GMT -5
well then that nid player is cheating. he has to move the each warrior into base to base with the closest unbase to base enemy model.
as long as a veteran that is not in bse to base contact yet is 6 inches close to a non base2base nid warrior he must be charged by a warrior.
but yeah i hear ya. i just cant wait to see what new models we get the next time guard comes around
|
|
|
Post by Commissar on Oct 5, 2007 0:07:13 GMT -5
Damn those are good points. I say what he says is what we should all say cause it makes sence so say it!
|
|
|
Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Oct 5, 2007 3:19:28 GMT -5
Slightly more powerful lasguns. lasguns are fine in my opinion. they're supposed to be the weakest weapon. if we saw better lasguns, we'd see more expensive guardsmen. I like my cheap dudes. I could see AP6 added to the lasgun, I don't think anything more than that would really be right. in a perfect world, it'd be neat to see rules for the power settings on lasguns, but in reality, GW seems to be simplifying rules (my theory on that is so they speed large game playtimes up to make it feasable to pull off a big battle reasonably quickly). while I'd like to see this represented in the rules, I'm fine with it not coming about and have accepted that as the way things are moving. on a side note, I'd really like to see a skirmish 40k ruleset released that adds all that long lost fondly remembered and loved 2nd edition special rule heavy goodness back into 40k so those of us who want to play a game where we have all kinds of cool special rules and complicated stuff on our troops can have that - kinda like reverse apocolypse anyway, I digress... what would you improve? I like em. marines went from like a dozen tank upgrades to 4. I don't see us getting a codex that adds complexity in this day and age for above stated reasons, though what would you like to see as a tank upgrade? I'm curious. we're likely to get different ones, and maybe one or two of the same but I think you'll kinda get your wish here. all codexes seem to incorporate changes in this section. if the new 'dex is along the lines of the other new 'dexes, then expect for each sergeant to have a couple weapon options and the characters to have some pre-set weapon options of their own. there will be no more armory as we know it, only mini-armories for our officers/veteran sergeants. I'm personally praying that we never see this day personally, cuz I like being able to take strange combos of low point gear on my sergeants but hey, if they give my sergeant a powersword option (yeah right) I'd sell out and embrace the change ultimately mini-armories wouldn't be so bad I s'pose as long as they gave us decent sergeant options. the officers would likely come with refractor fields built in (as the new 'dexes seem to kit up HQ type dudes automatically and auto-upgrade sergeants to veterans and stuff like that) so that might be kinda cool. I think we should have slightly stronger troops and more tank choises I feel as though super long rang, medium and sort and strong is horible choice. while at heart, I totally TOTALLY agree with you about how painful it is to use standard issue IG flak jacket infantry and how horribly they die and how discouraging it is to pull handful after handful of beautifully painted guardsmen off the table to be discarded in a heap of 'dead pile' minis that is just REALLY big, it kinda goes against SOME of the philosophy of the guard and how it's really a gigantic cannon fodder corps. the thing that scares me most about the prospect of a new codex is losing the doctrine system. our codex was the innovator of doctrines/traits/veteran skills and it has added more to the IG than to any other army in 40k. now all the new codecei are removing veteran skills and there are rumors that traits will go in the space marine codex redo that's suposedly coming down the pipes. if traits go, then the only thing left is doctrines, and I REALLY(OMGREALLYREALLY) don't want to lose this. there are people who have converted entire armies of carapace armor troops, or warrior weapon troops or this, that, and the other that would be made totally obsolete in one stroke. this would make me cry so hard to have a full army turned into mediocre paperweights (where'd the pewter minis go?..). one thing, beyond all others that I pray is retained in a new imperial guard codex is the doctrine system. it gives the guard the diverse feel that it deserves and makes it such a rich army with so many possible ways to bring your infantry to the field. it's just awesome and it is THE rule out of the whole guard codex that exemplifies the imperial guard. I pray they see that we are different in that regard than any other army and allow us to keep it. i would like to see some sort of actual close combat squad instead of adding heck load of points to forgo all of your lasguns in your platoons. if they drop doctrines, I wouldn't be suprised to see perhaps hardened veterans have a wargear setup like this: laspistol frag grenades krak grenades lasgun, combat shotgun, or combat blade I'd bet on it being the same deal with command squads if this is the case. this would be in the wargear line for regular guardsmen if that was the format most likely: laspistol frag grenades lasgun I like the thought of doing an AP6 lasgun (it's pretty worthless to have AP6 but whatever, it's a change for the better..). how would you make the hellgun better? I'm not sure how I'd do it since S4 is pretty buff and ap4 is really buff. if they go with the new format the improvement to stormtroops will be that they'll likely have hellpistols AND hellguns and that'll be their 'weapon improvement.' all the new dexes (dark angels, blood angels, and chaos marines) all see the basic trooper getting a pistol to go with their rifle - I wouldn't be suprised to see guard get the same. while I agree a powersword on an independent character is pretty worthless (unless a senior or heroic senior officer, in which he gets to swing (at best) once before dying), power weapons are decent in hardened veteran and stormtrooper squads due to their hidden nature. they're justified at 5pts ea due to this, though if the new format is followed with the next IG 'dex, you can expect to have no main armory and just a bunch of individualized mini-armories for all the sergeants and officers (however due to the seemingly apparent theme of keeping things simple variations in wargear costs between different mini-armories is a really rare thing). I disagree with the chimera needing better front armor, I think it REALLY needs armor 10 on the side. we're paying for a light tank. a decently kitted up chimera costs around 100pts and is NOT a transport. yes it CAN transport but it's obviously meant as a fire support vehicle. I'd really like to see the chimera's side armor bumped up to 11 so that it begins to have a chance when it advances off the back table edge where side shots on it become far more likely. this will restore some transport value to it. glancing hits are typically what kill rushing transports, and making a transport that can easily be glanced by typical rifles just means that whether you pop smoke or not, you're typically throwing away your transport since it'll be destroyed by rifle fire just as often as by other weapons. seriously, chimerae need 11 side armor. this is my biggest desire for the IG, I think even more (now that I think about it) than keeping the doctrine system....though that is a pretty huge issue too what with the guard being such a diverse fighting force of uncounted billions across the galaxy...yeah.. chimerae side armor and doctrines..these are my two big wishes. The one thing that I see that truly needs changed is the leaderships. We get a 12" re-roll if there is a regimental Banner on board, yet the marines get to roll off their chapter master so long as he is on the board. If we have improved comms we should get to use the banner abilities. This came up because of the way many armies are able to outnumber the individual squads (multi wound models in force on hth forcing failed combats and routs rolls) improved comms is a vehicle upgrade so I'm not sure that would be the thing to convey the regimental standard reroll as much as the master vox would be. that would be neat to see the REGIMENTAL standard convey the reroll but I worry that wouldn't make for a broken essentially fearless IG army (though I can hear the arguments that a regimental standard on the table should make the army near fearless, in game terms it just seems overpowered). it's a neat idea, however. I could see something like regimental standards conveying 'fearless' to all squads within 12" - this would go in the same direction of current codecei (like dark angels with a chaplain can have a sacred standard that does this). word - I say just make IG officers NOT ICs unless their retinue is killed off, like it used to be in 3rd edtion! that was when our officers were actually useful for something more than iron discipline and their leadership bubble. I seriously don't even give my officers ANY wargear nowadays cuz that powersword held aloft just screams 'stab me!' and he never even swings...ever. in 3rd edition our officers could fight like sergeants and have a chance to do some damage, thus giving them wargear was justified. I'd like to see a return to that, personally. I gotta say guard are not superhumans or elves so on a basic level, they are what they are, but frag grenades can be used to even the odds a bit. I don't see guard getting marine initiative anytime..ever, and while I'd love to see rules for IG to buy minefields to place after terrain setup and board side has been determined, I haven't seen GW ADD complexity to a codex in a very long time. they seem to be streamlining the game so that it runs quickly and efficiently so we can play our apocolypse battles in 1 day and not over a span of weekends. adding complexity seems counter to what they've been doing so I wouldn't hold my breath to see something new and untried appear (though it would be totally cool). there MAY be something in apocolypse for us though - maybe a cool stratagem that'd lay a minefield or an orbital strike or something similar and if nothing else, you could always take a whirlwind or 3 from a friendly marine chapter and drop some castellan missiles on the enemy - there's your minefield right there that's a cool idea! maybe give guard the ability that when they LOSE combat, all models locked in combat with the unit(s) forcing the morale check for losing combat add up to one number for determining if our guardsmen are outnumbered or not. go mob tactic! so like if a squad of chaos marines won combat (a common occurance) vs. a squad of 3 and a squad of 7 guardsmen, then both squads would have a unit strength of '10' for purposes of determining if they were outnumbered. that'd be worthy. or at least the ability to take a frickin vox! seriously, having to babysit heavy weapon crews is a pain in the rear and ties up all our officers for babysitting duty (which works for the armies that play the 'my officer sits in the firebase and commands stuff' game, but some armies like the officers to be front liners with swords and scars all over). giving weapon squads the option to upgrade to veterans would be cool - perhaps an option only to heavy weapon squads in the command platoon, and not those taken as a heavy support choice. as a side note, I'd really like to see some of the other leman russes brought back into the guard 'dex. this dexes biggest loss was a) the loss of non-independent character IG officers and b ) half our tanks vanished out of the dex. it was a blow to tell the truth. I know forgeworld still makes them legal, but alot of players aren't ok with allowing forgeworld rules (or armored company for that matter, now that AC is not allowed at GTs). this has made for a sad treadhead in 4th edition compared to the IG players and tank commanders of 3rd edtion. thanks for reading my book! TB
|
|
|
Post by Rolling Thunder on Oct 5, 2007 9:02:27 GMT -5
My personal ideas were
1. Bring back the griffon and the LR exterminator. 2. Carapace armour on Ogryns 3. Hardened fighters on rough riders 4. Warrior weapons doctrine altered to something like 'close support' doctrine son you can have either a shotgun or a laspistol or close combat weapon for no points cost, just a doctrine point. 5.The officer fighting like a sergent. 6. Sergents with powerweapons. 7. Seriously, I want too be able to use a heavy flamer without the jungle fighters rules. Heavy flamers as a standard heavy weapons option.
If I think of more, I'll post.
Thanks for your thoughts.
|
|
|
Post by fatuous on Oct 5, 2007 10:32:33 GMT -5
Some excellent ideas.... and some weird ones too . Doctrines really have to stay, otherwise they can pretty much rename the IG to Cadians. I would really like the ability to buy horses for command squads, so that u could make a real rough rider style army, plus giving a HSO a hunting lance means they might actually get a fight in when charging eldar rather than just being killed by exarchs. Rough riders as troops I think wouldn't really work so well, and isn't needed, as u should keep IG troopers in the game, altho perhaps being able to give every one horses but limit the number of cc ones might work i guess. I'd like to be able to give my officers the same weapon options as a sargent, why can't they take a las gun anyway? Same with ST sargs, they should have the option to take a normal hellgun instead of a pistol. As much as I'd like power weapons on sargents, it doesn't feel very IG to me. Same with an increases to lasguns. An ap might be nice, so that when u finally get wounds thru on an ork they do actually die Main thing I would like is the ability to give an infantry squad 2 special weapons instead of a heavy, and I'd happily have this as a doctrine, maybe even banning heavies in inf squads (if u choose the doc). That would be great IMO. I'd also like (and have no idea how this will work) to some how have the ability to take more troops per squad. 10 is all very well, but all other hoarde armies can take 20+ man squads and over whelming an IG squad just isn't that difficult. Even sisters can take squads of 20. I love how platoons work, but if u could field them as 1 massive unit, that could be interesting, and would make keeping officers alive much easier (altho that may not be all that balanced . likewise, being able to assign preists to an ogryn squad for example would be v useful, the vision of 50 conscripts with a preist (evisorator) and commissar (powerfist) assaulting terminators or something just gives me a really warm feeling .
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2007 11:45:35 GMT -5
Some great points in here so far, I agree that the doctrine system MUST MUST stay. Frankly I'd like to see MORE doctrines, LOTS more. Ones that allowed for even more extreme themed forces. Maybe even ones for Renegade guard.
Apart from that, I'd really hate to see anything taken out of the codex, for every unit in the IG dex I know at least one person who swears by it. More wargear would be great for some more flavor, but seeing the current 'dex trend there's really No chance of that happening.
Also, even though you can legally use any 3E vehicle patterns (russ exterminator, griffon etc) getting a new printup of them would be nice, and clear up some confusion as to their legality.\
Stats-wise I think the guard are right on the money. Wargear costs can be a little funny here and there but overall it's not bad. On more of a wh40k criticism level it never ceases to amaze me just how few ap 3 or better weapons are out there :] damn smurf favoritism
|
|
|
Post by majorjav on Oct 5, 2007 12:47:32 GMT -5
As said before, if there is a new Imperial guard 'dex, I hope they would keep the doctrine stuff, that is THE things that made the Guard so unique.
I'd like to see some changes:
- Doctrines: instead of having "X points per squad", we should have "X points per model"
- New doctrines: such as 2 special weapons for regular squads, warrior weapons for free, hellguns for regular squads?, being able to put shotguns in regular squads.
- Weapons: more heavy weapons for the infantry: multilaser, heavy flamer (not to have jungle fighters), and heavy stubber! Shotgun should have a new stat like R18" S 4 AP6 Assault 1... All models come with frag/krack grenades, las pistol, lasgun, cc weapon AP6 for lasguns could be nice.
Here are my thoughts....
Cheers
|
|
|
Post by Commissar on Oct 5, 2007 13:36:57 GMT -5
Well I would like the see just a few extra options for our tank, I mean we have the most armour in the universe man!!! Maybe something else, some other gun to go on the pintle mount. Maybe an upgrade, like an engine upgrade to make the tanks go vroom a little faster. I dunno...
|
|
|
Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Oct 5, 2007 17:50:21 GMT -5
All models come with frag/krack grenades, las pistol, lasgun, cc weapon I don't think anyone in the new codecei get that much kit. it's either lasgun OR cc weapon in the new books, and the option to switch the lasgun for a cc weapon is only given to veteran or command squads. the regular troop squads are only able to take the rifle. having a pistol on all our dudes would be nice though.
|
|
|
Post by Commissar on Oct 5, 2007 20:01:17 GMT -5
A pistol would be more realistic, to have on all troopers, but grenades would be good too.
|
|
|
Post by Woz on Oct 5, 2007 20:17:33 GMT -5
Keep it as it is.
I don't want to have to go and fork out for yet another codex for my army.
If you want an easy to use army then play Smurfs.
|
|
|
Post by ssgtdude (M.I.A) on Oct 6, 2007 0:10:24 GMT -5
For simplicity sake Doctrines should be reworked. Don't get me wrong. I like the doctrine, but as they stand you have to pay too much for them. The only one that I see as being any sort of benefit is sharpshooter. Again, though it is too expensive. If an army is taking doctrine then it should be a cost for the army not individual squads (with the doctrine stating which squads benefit from the ability). This will make the Mathhammer faster. (e.g. Sharpshooter +25 points) Or better yet. If you take doctrine expend 100 points total and you receive 4 doctrine. Additional doctrine can be bought by taking disadvantages (e.g. Lowtech world (no carapace armor available +2 Doctrine ) Sorta like what the Marines have with their codex but with a blanket cost.
rewrite the rules slightly on the IC. While I think the intent of the rule is that while the IC is a member of a squad (e.g. HSO and retinue) and no longer a IC. There ends up being the translation of the Big book overshadowing what the codex says even though the big books specifically says that the codex rules take precedent over the Big Book. Multiple times you see in the codex the statement that the IC will revert to being an IC if the squad is destroyed or killed. The IC should also be able to leave his retinue If they want to.
While I like the upgrades they are doing with the CSM and the SM armies. The guard NEED to keep and retain their armory. there are just too many combinations that the guard need to have available otherwise you start getting cookie cutter armies and everyone should just start playing Cadian then. If the guard were to have the armory removed then that is all you are doing is spitting out cookie cutter armies since only ONE or TWO options will be viable and everyone will be pumping out the same combinations and thus the enemy will just defend against it.
Marine armies can do that because after all a Marine is a Marine and their unit make up offers less ability to be different. They have their differences through their advantage and disadvantages (which aren't expensive and give greater advantage than the abilities that guardsmen get for doctrines) and the specific army codex that come out (i.e. DA and BA).
Add a model to the heavy weapon teams called the spotter (increase to 7 models versus 6). As long as the spotter is alive then no need to take the leadership test for priority. Spotter would have access to VOX, las pisto,l and ccw. Also, you will have a better chance to stay on board if that unit takes fire and looses a couple models.
I like the idea of improving my idea of allowing for Heavy Weapon teams bought on the HQ to be the vets as they are more expensive this way to begin with and the cost as vets does make up for the cost of just taking the weapons in troop units.
Sharpshooter instead of rerolling ones should +1 to die rolls (1's always miss) to reflect the ability to shoot and aim better. This will in effect take that twin linked effect off while still giving your opponent a fighting chance.
allow the Castellian Missle to be a special Merv Shell upgrade for the Basillisk (+25 points). Allow fr sargents to trade in lasguns for laspistol and ccq at no charge.
Give us laser sights or primative marker lights.
Rough riders should be able to keep the hunting lance (benifit only on first round of combat on all assaults not just first combat)
|
|
|
Post by The Refined Gentleman (M.I.A) on Oct 6, 2007 8:42:48 GMT -5
more doctrine points please!!!!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2007 23:50:25 GMT -5
For my reworked doctrine ideas see my thread Imperial Guard Organisation and Doctrines List. Its based on many of the ideas ive come across online for houserule doctrines as well as personal ideas and a way of incorporating the AC back into the IG. ITS A REALLY LONG LIST OF DOCTRINES, almost Seven pages on word. It should solve all the IGs problems and create dozens of new ones.
|
|
|
Post by Commissar on Oct 7, 2007 2:03:30 GMT -5
I would like to see only a few, but significant upgrades. Maybe, a special shell the LR/LRD can fire only once or something like that. Some fun new, but original special rules.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2007 4:31:23 GMT -5
I would like the Psyker to have some useful powers, and not random...
|
|
|
Post by Turtleboy(AWOL) on Oct 7, 2007 5:00:10 GMT -5
I agree with the not random part for sure, minus - I like my army to have some fluff and I'd really like that fluff to have the same psyker in every battle, but him manifesting random powers for every fight seems really unfluffy and I'm having a hard time explaining how one day he feels like he's able to do this, then the next he can somehow do something totally different but not what he did yesterday, and so on. fluff for the fluff god! as far as the useful powers part of your statement, yeah, I can see that but at least our psykers have powers...usually...
|
|
|
Post by Rolling Thunder on Oct 7, 2007 12:32:19 GMT -5
Okay, I've had a nice holiday up at cape St Lucia, seen some rhino, girraffe and cape buffalo, and I came up with a few new ideas.
1. New doctrines: a)Close support troops. Guard infantry units with the close support doctrine can replace their lasgun with a shotgun or laspistol and close combat weapon for free.
b)Mounted. Guard infantry units which select the mounted doctrine must pay a 2pt per model too be mounted on a horse. They retain all their standard options and gain no additional benifits (they are still troops choices, and may not select ant of the rough rider options) except they now count as cavalry.
2. Rough riders to be reworked so they can either be Lancers or Hussars. Lancers are armed with the hunting lance which acts as normal. Hussars are armed with the cavalry sabre. To represent the sheer damage a cavalry sabre can do, on the turn the Hussars charge they may re-roll all failed to wound rolls.(this is not a one shot ability either) Other than this, cavalry sabres are a standard close combat weapon. 3. Rework the sniper spec. weapon teams so they consist of 3 two men teams acting independantly. One with a sniper, one with a lasgun. The lasgun armed spotter can be armed with a fire control system for 25pts, which has a range of 24" and a relay range of 12". Any friendly unit within the 12" relay distance may re-roll failed to hit rolls on the unit targeted by the spotter.
4. Renegades. The ability to take the rogue psyker and the fallen confessor units in the witch hunters codex, able to take lost and the damned as allies, Chaos marines as allies, daemonhosts units and death cult assasins units in daemonhunters codex.
|
|
|
Post by Commissar on Oct 7, 2007 13:24:46 GMT -5
Cavalry eh? I think it would cost a tad more than just 2 points per guy. I mean, come on. The ability to move faster, move through terrain faster. More like 3-4 points.
|
|
|
Post by Rolling Thunder on Oct 8, 2007 9:47:43 GMT -5
Yah, but rough riders only cost 9 points, and these won't get any of the rough rider abilities like hunting lances. So its fair.
|
|