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Post by Rolling Thunder on Aug 20, 2009 17:33:42 GMT -5
Mind you, it's difficult to justify why sisters would have very long-ranged firepower.
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Post by Laughing Man on Aug 20, 2009 17:35:50 GMT -5
Because if they don't get it they'd get all emotional like women do.
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Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on Aug 20, 2009 17:58:36 GMT -5
SoBs don't get emotional, they get psychotic and burn you to death.
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Post by Laughing Man on Aug 20, 2009 18:04:31 GMT -5
That's still emotional. Just angry emotional.
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Post by blackarmchair on Aug 20, 2009 19:25:30 GMT -5
That's still emotional. Just angry emotional. Let's keep the sexist comments to a minimum please. It's no coincidence that you choose to impose stereotypical judgments upon the only "all female" army in the game and you know this. I understand not everyone can have a perfect childhood in the Freudian sense but let's try to keep those feelings pent up where they belong mmmmm-kay?
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Post by Melissia on Aug 20, 2009 20:15:22 GMT -5
There's a justification, he's an [not a very nice person]. Mind you, it's difficult to justify why sisters would have very long-ranged firepower. I don't see why not. The Sisters fight wars on their own as frontline soldiers; they're an elite frontline unit, not like Astartes (whom DO get long-ranged weaponry!) whom are a rapid response unit.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Aug 20, 2009 21:54:59 GMT -5
But currently, they're at their best in a support role. What will it be like, when a new 'dex is released? I can't imagine...
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Post by Melissia on Aug 20, 2009 22:00:03 GMT -5
What they're best at depends on WHICH Sister you're talking about. there's not just one particular type of "Adepta Sororitas".
Celestians: Elite close combat squad Battle Sisters: Frontline infantry squad Dominians: Mechanized special weapons squad Seraphim: Hit and run style jump squad Retributors: Static heavy weapons squad
A mix of mobile and static infantry types.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Aug 20, 2009 22:58:17 GMT -5
I meant support as in, allies. Or with an ally.
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Post by Melissia on Aug 21, 2009 0:07:55 GMT -5
Everyone functions best as support then, by that definition.
Including the Guard.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Aug 21, 2009 7:13:19 GMT -5
Not really. Guard do long-ranged and close-up quite well. As does every other army. Games Workshop simply neglected to throw in any proper long-ranged toys for the ladies in black.
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Post by seed on Aug 21, 2009 8:42:21 GMT -5
We are thinking of entering a doubles tournament. Do you think people would call cheese or complain if the guard army had a valk\vendetta and some sisters hitched a ride? and this is the test color scheme for the order of the fluffy bunny and this is the logo going on the banners and tanks but with a pink bow.
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Post by Melissia on Aug 21, 2009 11:00:21 GMT -5
Not really. Guard do long-ranged and close-up quite well. As does every other army. Games Workshop simply neglected to throw in any proper long-ranged toys for the ladies in black. So you're saying the Guard wouldn't function better if they could call down Astartes drop pods where they needed them to be, or could spearhead an assault with Sororitas toting flamers and meltaguns in their powered armor? I find that hard to believe. We are thinking of entering a doubles tournament. Do you think people would call cheese or complain if the guard army had a valk\vendetta and some sisters hitched a ride? If they do, screw them. The Sisters have been neglected so long that it's a blessing seeing them have some good things still, such as riding in valks.
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xthetenth
Lieutenant
Arty for the arty god, pie for the pie throne
Posts: 121
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Post by xthetenth on Aug 21, 2009 11:40:41 GMT -5
Not really. Guard do long-ranged and close-up quite well. As does every other army. Games Workshop simply neglected to throw in any proper long-ranged toys for the ladies in black. So you're saying the Guard wouldn't function better if they could call down Astartes drop pods where they needed them to be, or could spearhead an assault with Sororitas toting flamers and meltaguns in their powered armor? Do want. That sounds awesome. What I really want though are black templars to fill my outflanking valkyries. Oh god would that own. Sure guard have a great variety of ranged firepower, their only strength in an assault is numbers. Sisters are just astounding in short range, so it makes sense they don't have much long ranged firepower, they want to get in close and burn the unclean. That may make them weak at long range, but a weakness like that in apocalypse is mitigated heavily by their ability to take nearly any other imperial army they want as allies, many of which can provide serious support fire while the sisters get close and do their job. I highly doubt that any single army is more effective than it combined assiduously with another army. I do agree that sisters need it more than most, but their weakness in apocalypse is kind of a necessary symptom of their style.
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Post by Melissia on Aug 21, 2009 11:42:45 GMT -5
It's not entirelly necessary. Their heavy support units all have long-ranged capabilities, of some sort, although it's only long-ranged for normal 40K games (IE 36-48").
THe biggest problem in apoc is that they don't have any datafaxes.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Aug 21, 2009 12:47:42 GMT -5
That's just carte blanche to make your own, and not have the other person cry foul, as long as it's balanced and fair.
IE: no "I call exterminatus on you" - 350 pts. Use d3 massive blast markers at deployment, ...
You see where that one's going.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Aug 21, 2009 14:23:36 GMT -5
1. No, because my veterans do both heavy-infantry killing and armour-pranging much, much better, for less, and look a hell of lot cooler, in my opinion.
2. All the Sisters got for Apoc was one admittedly cool Strategem called 'Holy War', which makes all of their units that are in the enemy deployment zone relentless. So mobile heavy bolters and Multimeltas, but hardly a patch on 'Scheduled bombardment: I hereby call down half an artillery company on your ass at this, this, and this point', 'On My-Co-ordinates: No, you may not overrun my position with your silly assault troops' and 'Defence Lines: Yes, now my Guardsmen are as hard as your marines'. And those are just the ones that come as part of the Infantry Company.
3. Seed: Why do you feel the need to degrade the Soriotas? While I do insult and disparage them, this is all part of my heretical personality that is Drang (yes, he now forms part of my personality), it is all in good fun.
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Post by Melissia on Aug 21, 2009 17:25:35 GMT -5
1. No, because my veterans do both heavy-infantry killing and armour-pranging much, much better, for less, and look a hell of lot cooler, in my opinion. A veterans squad with just a single doctrine is only ten points less than a Sororitas squad. And the Sororitas squad has bolters and power armor. Give them one doctrine, two flamers, and a heavy flamer, and they're around 130 points IIRC. A footslogging Sororitas squad of 10 members with a similar setup is likely to be around 145-ish points, IIRC (including the upgrade to Veteran Sister Superior and a purchased BoSL). Considering that for those fifteen poitns they get bolters and power armor, they'd be worth every point for this particular role. They'll hit harder (Acts o Faith, Bolters), last longer (Acts of Faith, Power Armor), and flee the battlefield less often (Acts of Faith, BoSL).
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Aug 21, 2009 17:51:07 GMT -5
But I'm not going for flamers. I'm giving them carapace and 3 plasma guns, plus a plasma pistol on the sergeant. 155 points. Now, you paid 110 for the squad, 36 for upgrades, and another 20 for a BOSL, let's say, so we're roughly even.
Now, presuming I get the drop on you using my Valk, I land 10 men, kill roughly 6 with plasma and shotguns. You move up, and rapidfire bolters - heavy flamer kills 4, And roughly 4 more die. Both sides pass LD checks. Next turn, your Soriotas die in a hail of plasma. Of course, if you get the drop on me, or use and act of Faith, I lose, but with a Valk I am far more likely to get the drop on you and if you get acts of faith I get to use a company command squad within 12" to give them FRF/SRF and buff it up to 7 kills.
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Post by Melissia on Aug 21, 2009 18:05:55 GMT -5
And if you get a valk, I get to shoot your little valk down with an Exorcist long before it reaches my squads... and there begins the X army is better than Y army thing. Let's not get into THAT, because those arguments never go anywhere anyway. My only point was that ALL forces of the Imperium benefit when working side by side in a well coordinated manner. The Guard are good at what they do, but it'd be silly to say that they wouldn't benefit from the use of power-armoured units such as Astartes or Sororitas.
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Post by Lord General Armstrong on Aug 21, 2009 18:44:48 GMT -5
and then jarms comes in and kills everyone with his trio of death strikes. "Hahaha runs away."
Well Melissia my vets have 3 meltas, 7 shotguns and a chimera with turret multilaser and hullheavy flamer. that 155.
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Post by seed on Aug 21, 2009 19:47:23 GMT -5
3. Seed: Why do you feel the need to degrade the Soriotas? While I do insult and disparage them, this is all part of my heretical personality that is Drang (yes, he now forms part of my personality), it is all in good fun. How Am I degreading them?
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Post by Melissia on Aug 21, 2009 20:21:48 GMT -5
I think he just gave the wrong name there. He was probably referring to laughingman.
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Post by seed on Aug 21, 2009 20:44:17 GMT -5
I tohught he may of been talking about the army name of the orders logo\symbol.
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Post by Melissia on Aug 21, 2009 20:52:06 GMT -5
Honestly, I don't think taht's to bad... the main way I'd find it degrading personally would be if it was one of those moronic "hurr hurr, fallen sisters of slaanesh!" armies that abound the net, owned by perverted morons.
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