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Post by druchi on Oct 9, 2009 13:39:20 GMT -5
Despite popular belief I would say Ultramarines are cool, you get space romans.
And the blue looks nice.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Oct 25, 2009 11:17:30 GMT -5
Another interesting use of this is using Sisters of Battle. With the Valkyries combined firepower, massed bolters, Heavy Flamers and so on, this becomes a frighteningly effective anti-horde weapon.
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Post by Julian Sharps on Oct 25, 2009 12:03:49 GMT -5
Another option that wouldn't require Allies would be demo vets with double flamers and a heavy flamer (throw in Harker or even Bastonne for added dakka fun!)
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Feb 11, 2010 13:10:46 GMT -5
An addendum to this tactic: Never deploy a Valkyrie onfield unless you have first turn. Please understand the rationale behind this - it cannot, under the current rules, be effectively concealed unless you happen to be fighting behind a mountain or a skyscraper. It is fragile - AV12 does not hold up well to antitank fire. And it is a high-priority target - your opponent's will soon grow to hate and despise these beautiful models as they rain destruction down upon their forces - so, please, if you get the second turn....outflank. Or deepstrike. Just never, ever leave them in a position where they can be shot at without returning fire.
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Post by polonius on Feb 11, 2010 21:34:39 GMT -5
You can leave a valk out, just be prepared to lose it. If you run a more aggressive list with lost of AV12, there is only so much shooting they can unleash. Sometimes shooting the valk is better than shooting at chimeras. The reason is because the valk cares far less about being shaken or stunned. With extra armor stunned results all become shaken, and you can't shoot out of a valk anyway. Nothing spoils a battle plan quite like a stunned chimera, while a stunned valk can still get it's cargo where you need it.
I also tend to throw a CCS in a valk, not vets. You get an extra special weapon, a price break, a built in order, and you can leave your troops in chimeras to hold objectives.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Feb 11, 2010 22:18:16 GMT -5
Or disembark the troops from the chimera, and hold two objectives, as the dedicated chimera counts as a troop choice, then.
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Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on Feb 11, 2010 22:36:19 GMT -5
kinda a waste of two orders per turn if you're going to be sending that CCS screaming ahead in a valkyrie away from the bulk of your formation...then again...I'm also of the opinion that a CCS that costs more than say...70 points...is also a bit of a waste.(That's just me though...my commanders aren't exactly the front line type.)
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Post by darkomn on Feb 11, 2010 22:54:17 GMT -5
The only problem that I have with the Valkyrie is that the model and the rules kinda work opposed to each other. Consider for example a large piece of terrain, something that would completely hide say a LRBT, but because of the Valk's large flying base it is easily visible to say your opponents lascannon. Then consider that there are also enemy troops behind the piece of terrain with the Valk, both the lascannon and the troops can attack the Valk at the same time. So essentially the Valk is in two places at the same time.
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Post by polonius on Feb 12, 2010 0:45:07 GMT -5
Chimeras are vehicles, and vehicles can't hold objectives (except for Ravenwing speeders).
You can think about it as wasting two orders, but I think that's missing the point of command squads. both the CCS and PCS are incredible deals, even without orders! Look at the PCS: 5pts less than a SWS, one less body, but higher LD, an extra attack, frag grenades, and an extra special slot. Plus the ability to take a chimera. The orders are gravy. The CCS is even more efficient, running 20pts cheaper than a vet squad. Sure, it's five less models, but only 3 less wounds. It's LD9, can take four specials, and gets the orders on top of that. Nothing kills heavy armor like a CCS with four meltas under Bring it down. All for under 100pts!
It's horribly against fluff, I'll admit, but rather than sacrifice scoring troops, I'd always rather sacrifice cheaper, punchier command squads. Keep in mind, I tend to keep my vets in chimeras, so they can't benefit from orders.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Feb 12, 2010 9:43:39 GMT -5
Chimeras?
Bleugh. Horrible things. You see them being used en masse these days by the most irritating band of powergamers - the mech/veteran spam powergamer. Admitedly, I'm a Valk/Vet spam gamer, but I've got twelves pages of background fluff and a company of dead Marines Malevolent to damn well justify it. Also, can we keep the discussion on the topic of Valkyries, please?
Anyway, like I said, exposed Valkyrie=dead Valkyrie. It's mobility is best used to deliver a shattering blow in combination with other elements (in my case...other Valkyries. *Sigh*. Air cav obssessive, yes, that I am) of the force.
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Post by polonius on Feb 12, 2010 10:49:05 GMT -5
Interestingly enough, by only spamming one unit (valks), you lose out on a fair amount of strength by combining the chimeras with the Valks.
One of the keys to success with IG isn't spamming the best units, it's providing an overload of a single target type to your opponent. AV12, while weak individually, is hard to deal with in quantities over 6-7 units.
If you want to ignore the fact that your tactic can be used successfully, even on the second turn, by people that build different lists, that's fine. I can start the "Valkyrie Alpha Strike for the rest of us" thread.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Feb 15, 2010 18:23:22 GMT -5
Addendum tactic:
Sharp's Sweepstakes
This is a tactic developed by (or possibly stolen from, my brain isn't sure) by senior officer Julian Sharps. Or at least named for him, but I'll include it in here for completeness sake and the fact I damn well like it.
Requirements: One or more Valkyrie, ideally a Astropath, Second Turn.
Phase 1: Deploy your Valkyries in reserves, declaring as whether they will deepstrike or outflank.
Phase 2: Use the bonus from the Astropath to outflank the Valkyries to advantageous positions on the enemy flanks, moving them close to any isolated enemy units nearby that can be destroyed by the Valkyries and the contained Veterans.
Phase 3: Land the Veterans. Fire the Valkyrie. Mop up with plasma/melta storm. Note - if employing flamers/HF against, say, a horde, then it is probably better to shoot the veterans first. Naturally, if using meltaguns against a tank, the Valkyrie is better used to shoot at any nearby infantry and weaken them.
Phase 4: Since you will have just removed at least one enemy unit from the world, ideally two, it would be the ideal time to mount up and begin the systematic dismemberment of the enemy's forces using your Valkyries/Veterans to pick his army into pieces in a fashion similar to the last part of the Rolling Thunder tactic.
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Post by Julian Sharps on Feb 15, 2010 23:43:48 GMT -5
RT devised and named a maneuver after me. I'm honored.
For a setup like this, rocket pods are a must, especially against a horde. This one strikes me as likely to happen more often than the RT Gambit, if not because it relies on going second and doesn't leave your forces potentially vulnerable if your opponent gets the first turn. Not that I have any problem with the RT gambit, of course (I think it's a fine, brilliant and audacious maneuver, just like its creator).
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2010 15:40:50 GMT -5
my tactics simalur to grammars
outflank 2 valks and 2 vendetars, ussaly second turn and where i want tanks to an astropath, turbo boost them on and hold on for a turn, your valks are most likely to die but out of the rekage 2 vetran squads with 3 flamers shotguns and a power wapon a command squad with straken and a combat inquisitor lord and reutine with priest. tese will get the charge and so will my rough riders wich have been ignored thanks to the valks all with furios charg and ferles.
a strength 4 initiative 6 inquisitor with 5 attacks and a force weapon is not a good thing, same with a strength 7 strakem ;D
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Post by vladimir on Mar 3, 2010 11:09:45 GMT -5
Grammar heresy!!!
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Post by Julian Sharps on Mar 3, 2010 11:17:01 GMT -5
Grammar heresy!!! This needs to go in the funny pics thread, Vlad.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on May 17, 2010 3:47:33 GMT -5
Third note - Bull Charge:
This is a tactic that is to be used in Dawn Of War Scenarios, in place of any situation where "Operation Rolling Thunder" would be used. In essence, one deploys all the Valkyries so they will come on from the board edge on the first turn (guaranteeing both an arrival en masse and, at the same time, preventing your dastardly foe from getting a shot off).
Now, this is a particularly useful tactic if your foe's army is mostly assault or close-quartered oriented, and was either given or managed to get first turn. For if it is, he will have most likely advanced as close to your lines as humanly possible in an attempt to close with what he thinks will be a soft, squishy band of Guardsmen. It is your duty, therefore, as Aerial Cavalry players, to fly headlong into his most elite and powerful assault units, and plasma/melta them into merciless oblivion. Since he will have advanced at most 6+D6" from his start point, you will be able to fly your Valkyries 12", disembark and then strafe him with your short-ranged weapons.
Note - it is not advisable to attempt a headlong charge into a shooting or balanced enemy army. This will result in the loss of at least one to two Valkyries - an unacceptable loss of mobility in the first turns. If your opponent is using a shooty list, then revert to the Julian Sharps Sweepstakes. Do not attempt to bull charge into his hinterlands and start mixing things up with his firebase - his long-range shooting is about to enter the table by turn one or turn two, and can still lay down it's shots.
Against a balanced army, you will need to be cautious. If appears to keep a chunk of his army as assault or forward-moving units, then it could be a good tactic to give him the first turn, wait for him to come forward and then vaporise his forward units while they're cut off from the rest of his army.
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Post by Jackal-0311 on May 17, 2010 22:28:12 GMT -5
I seek all guidance form Aerial Cavalry Gurus:
What would be your chosen tactic against Nids?
My reason for asking is this, there has been a big shift in my club of guys building large nasty Nid armies.
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Post by Kassill on May 18, 2010 19:13:31 GMT -5
I am SOWAD, and I approve Operation Rolling Thunder.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on May 18, 2010 19:22:45 GMT -5
I seek all guidance form Aerial Cavalry Gurus: What would be your chosen tactic against Nids? My reason for asking is this, there has been a big shift in my club of guys building large nasty Nid armies. Okay. Tyranids represent a combination of two extreme elements - massive, powerful, super-super elite monsters (Trygon, Mawloc, Carnifex, Tryant, etc), with extremely powerful but fragile (though numerous) close combat infantry. So here's the plan: The Valkyrie, is equipped properly, is a fantastic infantry-killer. So use it as such. The firepower of a two-Valkyrie squadron firing at a single target is usually enough to reduce it down to numbers that, if denied of synapse, their lousy leadership will remove the remnants from play. Veterans, if equipped properly, and backed with the right orders (namely bring it down) will utterly destroy monsters. The logical conclusion being that it is best to clear his lighter infantry away (especially the faster ones) from his monsters, and then systematically kill the monsters using close-ranged infantry firepower. Basically, wipe out his Gaunts, Termagants, Gargoyles and anything that isn't big and gribbly first. Then go after his gribblies. If he's keeping them spread out, then take them down one by one - and make sure you use Bring It Down to make sure those monsters die. The thing is - you need both Bring it Down and a backup squad to make sure that a monster dies. So, in essence, it's best to go monster hunting with your CCS and veterans together.
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Post by Imperial Black Watch on May 18, 2010 21:54:54 GMT -5
I really like this 'rolling thunder' idea, shall try it tonight, I bought a valk just after they came out cause it looked cool, and have hardly used it. Nor have i really looked into what they can do, this is pure genius!!!
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Post by commissarkrause on Jul 21, 2010 17:28:37 GMT -5
i've always used this tactic. i used it to its best when i destroyed a land raider first turn (this was a 1500 pt battle so it was devastating)
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Post by Makarova (M.I.A) on Jul 22, 2010 10:40:47 GMT -5
They are the sexiest, hotest looking thing to venture onto the gaming board since Makarova lay absol- Hey, I've never done that. We have to try it!
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Post by Machine Gun Kelly on Jul 29, 2010 1:27:22 GMT -5
Aren't you afraid of getting a small plastic bayonet in...the parts of you where there absolutely shouldn't be small plastic bayonets?
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Post by Makarova (M.I.A) on Jul 29, 2010 3:15:28 GMT -5
Oh, that's okay, we don't use bayonets. But yeah, it's probably a bad idea. Gaming tables are full of terrain and not too stable, and we can be rather violent.
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