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Post by Rook on Jul 30, 2010 23:00:19 GMT -5
I was going to say "steer clear of the 'flamers' but knowing you that advice would be wasted". ;D
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Post by Julian Sharps on Feb 13, 2011 23:30:11 GMT -5
Yes, I know this is hideously necroed, but it's a great reference to prospective airborne commanders and probably should be stickied.
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Post by Walrus on Feb 14, 2011 3:43:27 GMT -5
For shame, Sharps...
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Post by Trickstick on Feb 14, 2011 6:14:33 GMT -5
Hey, necromancers are people too. Just hideously evil, twisted and unsociable people, who need to be introduced to Mr. Yellow.
I agree with the sticky though.
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Post by Paradill on Feb 14, 2011 6:59:41 GMT -5
Third the sticky vote. I don't run full aircav but I have read the thread several times back when I was lurking, it's a definitive work.
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Post by shaun5603 on Jul 5, 2011 10:44:50 GMT -5
Ok so correct me if i am wrong hear. If i get the first turn i can scout up my 3 vakyires and 2 vend up, fire than dismbark my vets? Also i posted my army list in the section is under vets and valkyires should i cut something out to get a astropath?
If this is correct that would be one hell of alpha strike. Seeing how i have harker and 3 gl and ML up front and my storm troopers with plasma inft too.
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Post by Julian Sharps on Jul 5, 2011 13:11:08 GMT -5
No, you scout move up to more than 12" away, then first turn move closer (6" for Vendettas, 12" for Valks) and disembark your vets. Then you can make things go boom.
You might actually want to consider either dropping Harker or replacing the Storm Troopers with Vets to get your Astropath, since you really don't need the ability to infiltrate, outflank or deep strike when you already have a bunch of vehicles that do that anyway.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Jul 5, 2011 13:33:36 GMT -5
No, you scout move up to more than 12" away, then first turn move closer (6" for Vendettas, 12" for Valks) and disembark your vets. Then you can make things go boom. You might actually want to consider either dropping Harker or replacing the Storm Troopers with Vets to get your Astropath, since you really don't need the ability to infiltrate, outflank or deep strike when you already have a bunch of vehicles that do that anyway. Actually Sharps, it's better to disembark your Veterans when they are 12" away from the enemy, rather than move the Valk/Vend. 2" disembark, 6" move, shoot, then a potential 6" assault. |
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Post by Julian Sharps on Jul 5, 2011 16:24:27 GMT -5
Just laying some options out there, RT...
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Post by shaun5603 on Jul 6, 2011 16:26:33 GMT -5
Oh ok got it yeah i am re working my list to get a another valkyire and asthropath.
Also how effective are those hellstrike missiles? I though about keeping unit with them. They way i see it is have two valkyires with rocket pods and two with hellstrikes. And than the two vendettas.
As far as harker goes i like the fact of having a unit right up with 2 heavy weapons and 3 gl could be usefull at poping light vicks are nailing MC right form the start. But if i drop the rocket pods on the 1 valk that frees up my points for asthropath. Than droping the ML and lord commassiar that free points for my other valk.
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Post by Julian Sharps on Jul 6, 2011 18:39:22 GMT -5
Hellstrikes are basically hunter-killer missiles that get to roll 2D6 and take the highest for vehicle armor penetration. In order to fire it, your Valk has to be moving no more than 6", and statistically you'll only get one hit per Valk per game with those, since they're one use only. Trust me, you'll want to leave your tank killing to your Vendettas and melta vets; it's much more effective for the points. If a Hellstrike were a one-shot Battle Cannon, then I might consider taking them, but instead they're a slightly better HK missile that slows you down, and you don't want your Valks to be slow.
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Post by shaun5603 on Jul 6, 2011 19:43:59 GMT -5
point taken, looks like they will be put on just for extar details. I feel with 3 sqs with melta and meltabombs thats more than enough AT the extar missle pods will help battle the horde list.
Now just some more fine tuning the army list than off to ordering all this stuff from FW. Side note does anyone know were to but FW stuff outside of ordering from FW? Like a store hear state side? Around the NY area.
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Post by nicholls on Oct 9, 2011 12:23:46 GMT -5
Great topic. “Vendettas” I never leave home without them and my entire regiments fluff revolve around them. “Operation Rolling Thunder” lol sure ok I’ll call it that however the name doesn’t do it justice because it doesn’t effectively describe the fear, shock, dread and disappointment the enemy feels when this tactic is successful. (I’d like to echo that it definitely is a first turn only tactic and not to be used against newbies unless they smack talk ya)
Personally I run with 3 Vendettas each loaded with vets/meltas.
Two of the Vendettas/Vets have specific targets for the first turn. I think that this is important to mention because you don’t want to waste the tactic on non-threat targets.
Top Priorities for me would be:
1. Units with long range pie plate fire power.
2. All Troop carriers, rhinos, landraiders etc.
3. Troop carriers are prioritized by what is inside them. Basically special weapons units and then units with numerous assault attacks.
The main goal of this tactic is to support the main firing line by eliminating anything that poses a serious threat to the IG ability to deliver superior fire power and to make the enemy walk its way up to my firing line.The Third Vendetta carrying vets/melta hangs back at max range as support to clean up whatever vehicle is left after “Rolling Thunder” is complete, or to claim objectives if applicable to game type, otherwise it too will have a first turn target.
*****The cherry on top*******
Add 2x5 squads of infiltrating stormtroopers w/meltas to this tactic to completely crush the opponents armour/transports on the first turn. Personally I don’t even infiltrate into cover, all I care about is being 18’ away so that I can move the 6” and be within melta range.
At the end of my turn one the enemy has 2 squads of storm troopers, 20 vets x6meltas, and 2 Vendettas on its side of the board to deal with before they even think of dealing with the main body of my army...
Mental Notes regarding vets after the Vendetta has made its scout move.
1. The vets disembark and fire their meltas at vehicles. While the Vendetta fires at a different target.
2. The vets stay in the vendetta because of the anti-infantry fire power on the ground. Their role then is to wait for opportunities to clean up whatever piles out of the vehicles destroyed by the Vendettas.
Cheers to “Operation Rolling Thunder” or as we call it in these parts “Operation First Strike”
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Oct 21, 2011 16:47:03 GMT -5
The...?
The main goal of this tactic is to get a bunch of heavily-armed bastards nose-to-nose with the vulnerable and expensive elements of an enemy army, all the while making him go "Sweet Christ where the fornicate did they come from!?", thus utilising the element of surprise to hopefully make him do something dumb and thus give you another edge beyond the simple exchange of firepower. You can use it as a throwaway, one-unit cheap trick, or you can mount your entire army up and do this (which is the way I roll it, incidentally), or anything in between.
Also, Stormtroopers are an expensive liability. You could spend those points on some more Valks and Veterans.
Incidentally, "Operation First Strike" is a bloody dumb name. Either give me credit or I'll send Rook to your house to step on your toys.
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Post by nicholls on Oct 22, 2011 12:39:47 GMT -5
lol should i have wrote "in my opinion?" my post was in support of yours (except the name..)
please don't step on my toys.....
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Post by Rook on Oct 22, 2011 19:32:23 GMT -5
or I'll send Rook to your house to step on your toys. What is the chance you really meant to type 'testicles' instead of 'toys'? |
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Post by Machine Gun Kelly on Oct 23, 2011 12:17:02 GMT -5
or I'll send Rook to your house to step on your toys. What is the chance you really meant to type 'testicles' instead of 'toys'? I think he meant blue suede shoes...... But then again, my childrens calls me a goofy old coot. |
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Hookah, S.C.
Colonel
Mostly Harmless
25%
But what if I put more plasma on it?
Posts: 390
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Post by Hookah, S.C. on Oct 28, 2011 7:16:45 GMT -5
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Oct 28, 2011 17:04:02 GMT -5
It is named for myself (in my supreme arrogance), and I picked my name from the Vietnam War operation. So there's a tangential relation. By IN do you mean Imperial Navy? |
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Post by treadiculous on Oct 29, 2011 14:17:27 GMT -5
What do you see as the greatest threat (s) to this tactic?
The only dedicated anti aircraft which isn't the guards own hydra is the Ork Flakkatrakk which as effective at its designed purpose as the punisher.. Its interesting that with the creation of more flyers in the game we aren't getting more anti-aircraft weaponry appearing.
(I forgot about the Forgeworld Crassius anti-aircraft missile launcher tank, which again is guard).
I realise this tactic works because it is a first strike event, that it causes enormous damage prior to the presented targets being fired upon by the enemy, and therefore what the enemy can do to harm you is already too late. With that in mind, there must be a number of counter measures that are being adopted by players against this tactic, (even though for some armies, to avoid being stung by Rolling Thunder they may sacrifice their effectiveness - such as assault based armies deploying further back in their DZ, or choosing to field units in reserve etc).
The other concern is that, as a guard player, often the tactic is to make the opponent travel the board and into the waiting guns. Rolling Thunder takes the fight to the enemy lines, and while it takes out transports and other critical targets does it not also present a lot of tasty targets to the enemy with in range of melta / power fist or klaws etc...
...I know this tactic is not to be unsupported, and that by taking out the important bits of the opponents army they will have a long slog without heavy firepower support ahead of them, all the while being shot at by the rest of the your supporting battery / gunline, but there must be a counter attack that has been encountered, or a reoccurring instance that denies this tactic its strength.
The greater the anticipation of the counter offensive the better the planning the rest of army.
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Post by Julian Sharps on Oct 29, 2011 21:54:23 GMT -5
Properly deployed bubble wrap squads or counter scouts-infiltrators might work, same with seizing the initiative. Another idea is to have too many tempting targets (Guard are good at this, as are Dark Eldar).
Basically, this tactic forces the opponent to be creative. There are a lot of players out there who could use a dose or three of panicked creative thinking every once in a while.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Oct 30, 2011 7:29:25 GMT -5
Enemies deploying their entire army off-board.
Getting too close to the enemy back line and getting counterassaulted by their reserves.
Bunching your veterans too closely together so multiple units can be assaulted.
An enemy concentrating his force in one side of the board (thus meaning you and his army are now fighting at knife-fight distances.) Basically, you should assign each veteran/command squad a target before commencing this attack - a target they are optimised to destroy (orders massively help). Plasma guns for elite infantry, flamers/HF for hordes, meltaguns for elite infantry and armour, demo charges for any infantry to get in your way. Under no circumstances should you skimp on firepower - you want your target of choice gone. Obliterated. No man left standing. Use orders to buff your firepower as much as possible (FRF, Bring it Down, Fire on My Target). If it survives the shooting, assault it. If it survives that, you're possibly doomed.
Your opponent stealing the initiative.
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Hookah, S.C.
Colonel
Mostly Harmless
25%
But what if I put more plasma on it?
Posts: 390
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Post by Hookah, S.C. on Oct 30, 2011 11:51:44 GMT -5
It is named for myself (in my supreme arrogance), and I picked my name from the Vietnam War operation. So there's a tangential relation. By IN do you mean Imperial Navy? Jahwol. I do mean that. Not sure how a decicated IN list would work, since they don't have any ground troops (I think..). |
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Post by Shostak(AWOL) on Oct 30, 2011 12:29:00 GMT -5
It can represent Navy troopers deploying in aircraft, or more likely a Guard regiment with Navy aircraft attatched or a specialist and rather rare regiment which has aircraft attatched on a permanent basis; eg. Elysians and Phantine Skyborne regiments.
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Hookah, S.C.
Colonel
Mostly Harmless
25%
But what if I put more plasma on it?
Posts: 390
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Post by Hookah, S.C. on Oct 30, 2011 19:46:42 GMT -5
It can represent Navy troopers deploying in aircraft, or more likely a Guard regiment with Navy aircraft attatched or a specialist and rather rare regiment which has aircraft attatched on a permanent basis; eg. Elysians and Phantine Skyborne regiments. Yeah, I kinda wish there was a RAF-regiment type regiment, but the rather silly Imperium rules on no combined arms prevents that (and is silly). |
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