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Post by RedsandRoyals on Oct 30, 2011 20:35:03 GMT -5
It can represent Navy troopers deploying in aircraft, or more likely a Guard regiment with Navy aircraft attatched or a specialist and rather rare regiment which has aircraft attatched on a permanent basis; eg. Elysians and Phantine Skyborne regiments. Yeah, I kinda wish there was a RAF-regiment type regiment, but the rather silly Imperium rules on no combined arms prevents that (and is silly). Technically, PDF forces can be combined arms. Only the Guard and the Navy are split, as dictated after the Horus Heresy. Reds
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Post by Shostak(AWOL) on Oct 31, 2011 5:12:26 GMT -5
They're split, but the Phantine send regiments of actual planes, (Thunderbolts, Marauders etc) to join the Imperial Guard.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Oct 31, 2011 6:12:25 GMT -5
They're split, but the Phantine send regiments of actual planes, (Thunderbolts, Marauders etc) to join the Imperial Guard. Those are Guard regiments, remember, not PDF. The main reason the Navy and IG were split was to deny mobility between worlds for traitor IG, or the ability to invade for traitor Navy. There's no fluff that I'm aware of (not saying it doesn't exist, of course) that says the PDF was forced to make the same split, and since PDF forces are tied to their worlds (or system at the most), I can see them being able to used combined arms units. Reds
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Oct 31, 2011 10:57:14 GMT -5
Or you can do what I do, which is to forswear the Emperor and fight for the highest bidder.
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Post by Commisar "General" Dr Phillips on Nov 27, 2011 15:22:19 GMT -5
Another interesting use of this is using Sisters of Battle. With the Valkyries combined firepower, massed bolters, Heavy Flamers and so on, this becomes a frighteningly effective anti-horde weapon. We are able to use Sisters?! O.o
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Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on Nov 27, 2011 15:38:43 GMT -5
No.
We could at one time, but not anymore. It helps if you check the dates on older threads...but since this one is pinned, I suppose it is an easy mistake.
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Post by mikef350 on Jan 7, 2012 17:10:17 GMT -5
Operation: Rolling Thunder. Now, let's be frank. I love Valkyries. Love them, Adore them, adore the model, adore the fluff (what little there is, most of which I made myself, frankly), adore the whole concept behind them. They are the sexiest, hotest looking thing to venture onto the gaming board since Makarova lay absol- *Is garrotted, briefly* Right, here's the premise. The Valk has, let's be frank, one of the longest scout moves in the game. If you get first turn, you can basically sit that raptors wing anywhere on the field. The only one limitation - not within 12" of an enemy unit. Sooooo...time for some fun1. Scout Valkyrie/Vendetta to within 12" of enemy wished dead. 2. First turn, disemark unit(2" disembark move), move towards enemy. 3. Fire guns at enemy. Remember to fire the guns on the Valk/Vendetta as well, since it's stationary this turn, though, if I am correct, you can actually move the Valk/Vendetta away during the movement phase, as it counts as having not moved at all, once your men disembark. 4. Assault enemy. And of course, this can also be done with GK's if you really, really have to break your opponent into teeny tiny pieces. Personally, I still prefer it with veterans against elite enemy troops, or, better yet, tanks. The sheer brilliance of this tactic is, that, not only is your opponent going to be having a serious brainfreeze with a Guard player actually attacking that it will most likely disrupt his offensive plans to such an extent that any push he makes on your gunline is likely to be a weak, one or two unit attack easily disposed of with massed firepower. Most people presume Guard players, given the first turn will stand back and shoot. Another wonderful little nuance is that, with the fact that at least two of the key elements of his army are now in smouldering, burning ruins/cut into pieces by white-hot plasma/wreathed in Promethium, coupled with the fact your Valkyries have just caused quite a few infantry casualties, means that the Veterans, assuming you've been wise enough to give them carapace, are actually going to survive, most likely, until the second turn, where they will go forth to wreak more carnage. Sure, your opponent can focus all his effort on killing them and smashing the Valkyries, but if he does, you can just laugh and pummel him from range with utter, utter impunity. A third fact is that this tactic, being named for me, is awesome, as is everything about it. Disclaimer one: I do not endorse this tactic's use against beginners or anyone who is undeserving of having it used against them. Doubly so if you replace the 'Veterans' with 'Grey Knights'. Disclaimer two: Make sure you hit their lines at a weak point, or, at least neutralise the stong ones. Remember, this tactic focuses on one thing - you, co-ordinating the two or three offensive elements of your force into a cohesive, powerful attack, spported by the rest of your force. Be selective with your targets. If your playing, say, a Blood Angels army, and your opponent has clustered all his army into a single blob, then this is not the tactic to be used here. If, however, he spreads out into a line of battle, then it is. Send plasma veterans to kill the Death Company (preferably weakened with a battlecannon shot first). Be clever, and be selective in your targets. Wow,i am just starting out with guard and i realy like the sound of this. Can you tell me how to go about building an army useing them tactics? Here is what i have and i would like to build a 2500/3000k army useing the mentioned models and the ones you recomend.Your help would be great. Colonel (iron hand) Straken Company command squad (banner bearer, medic, commander meltagun, vox caster) 2 Platoon command squads (2 commanders with bolt/plasma pistol, Heavy Flamer/plasma rifle, 2 vox caster and 4 guardsmen) 4 squads of 10 men Catachan Jungle fighters with 3 flamers,1 grenade launcher, 4 vox casters and 4 sargeants Special weapon team with 3 sniper rifles and 2 Lasgun Heavy weapon teams 3 Lascannon with 6 crew 1 Leman russ (painted) with battle cannon, lascannon, and heavy bolter sponsons, dozer blade 1 command leman russ with battle cannon, lascannon, multi melta sponsons, vox caster, dozer blade, hunter killer misile 1 Leman russ Eradicator with nova cannon, heavy bolter and heavy bolter sponsons. 1 Chimera with multi laser and heavy bolter. colnel schafer and last chances. sly marbo gunnery sgt harker basilisk
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Post by Machine Gun Kelly on Jan 8, 2012 8:31:12 GMT -5
Wow,i am just starting out with guard and i realy like the sound of this. Can you tell me how to go about building an army useing them tactics? Here is what i have and i would like to build a 2500/3000k army useing the mentioned models and the ones you recomend.Your help would be great. Colonel (iron hand) Straken Company command squad (banner bearer, medic, commander meltagun, vox caster) 2 Platoon command squads (2 commanders with bolt/plasma pistol, Heavy Flamer/plasma rifle, 2 vox caster and 4 guardsmen) 4 squads of 10 men Catachan Jungle fighters with 3 flamers,1 grenade launcher, 4 vox casters and 4 sargeants Special weapon team with 3 sniper rifles and 2 Lasgun Heavy weapon teams 3 Lascannon with 6 crew 1 Leman russ (painted) with battle cannon, lascannon, and heavy bolter sponsons, dozer blade 1 command leman russ with battle cannon, lascannon, multi melta sponsons, vox caster, dozer blade, hunter killer misile 1 Leman russ Eradicator with nova cannon, heavy bolter and heavy bolter sponsons. 1 Chimera with multi laser and heavy bolter. colnel schafer and last chances. sly marbo gunnery sgt harker basilisk Welcome to this forum. While it is always nice to compliment people in their own threads I think that you should have stopped there. This thread isn´t the correct place to post you models and asking RT to build a list for you. Also considering the fact that this thread is about how to use Valkyries and Vendettas. If you please repost you models and the questions you have in a new thread. Either in the tactics section or the army list sections we will all be glad to help you. Have a nice day, for the Emperor.
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Post by mikef350 on Jan 9, 2012 15:07:24 GMT -5
Ah i see,thought it was a specific army list that he was useing.My bad i apologise.
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Post by RedCuffs on Feb 23, 2012 8:14:59 GMT -5
Let me just back up a bit here? Are people saying that there is no way the Imperial Navy can ever have, under it's direct command, a fighting force that doesn't fly. i.e. fights with it's feet on the ground? A force such as the Royal Marines are to the Royal Navy or RAF Regt are to the RAF?
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Post by treadiculous on Feb 23, 2012 13:11:27 GMT -5
I would imagine there are militia on board the various space going vessels which serve as security.
These would deal with Pirate Boarding Parties, Warp Infestations, Prisoners etc.
Some of the Imperial Vessels get pretty flipping huge, so there could be a lot of these space-security officers on board, and maybe in some situations they are sent to a planet to accompany officers or technicians etc.
I would also assume a similar thing happens at the airfields, that there is a small force of security specific to the airfield / aircraft carrier.
I think that the Administratuum would be very keen to prevent larger organisations than this, and also that it would be really difficult for these 'security' forces to get their hands on any mechanised land support (such as Leman Russ etc).. though Hydra's are probably the exception to this.
I think the Apocalypse / Apoclaypse Re-Load book provides the best information on the Navy / guard split and how it combines... but, as always, It's a big universe and anything could happen in the next half hour ... *cue dramatic music*
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Feb 23, 2012 13:30:58 GMT -5
Naval vessels tend to rely on armsmen for boarding action defense, policing duties, etc. These can be purposed trained crewmen, ratings armed with shotguns and the like, or even mobs of low deck crew armed with pipes, wrenches, and whatever other makeshift weapons they can scrounge. I've pretty sure the Imperial Navy does not maintain any forces that normally deploy on the ground. Security for airfields would be handled normally by the IG, PDF, or Munitorium, and special operations missions would probably fall to Stormtrooper units that the vessel's captain has been ordered to transport to (and ideally from) the target.
Remember this is just the Navy though, rogue traders and chartist captains are free to hire mercenary forces and deploy them however they see fit.
Reds
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Post by treadiculous on Feb 23, 2012 16:00:48 GMT -5
Cool..
So, who would I model to represent my Naval Officer?
I'm guessing that the Guard would normally relay all their needs via Vox and not need a 'man on the ground' but I like the idea of a physical representation of the Naval Presence within my army.
I do note that (I think it is in the Valkyrie fluff) sometimes Valkyries get handed over to the command of ground staff. This might be for the duration of a campaign or a single occassion.
in which case, the Navy are not getting foot troops, but the foot troops are getting wings.
I need to read IA8 a bit more as I'm sure that book will give good indicators on how large forces of aircraft and foot troops work in concert...Though it may just give the Elysian way of doing things.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Feb 23, 2012 16:04:00 GMT -5
@tread: Assuming you don't want to use the model GW makes for the Fleet Officer, you can always use the commander model from the old tank accessory sprue, or give a special uniform paint job and markings to a vox officer from the plastic command squad kit.
You're right about Valks, I think. I recall reading that they're attached to drop units for the duration of the campaign, and sometimes permanently.
Reds
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Post by RedCuffs on Feb 24, 2012 5:15:10 GMT -5
So ... I don't want to go off topic ... but I'm going to anyway. According to those with far greater knowledge of the 40K universe than I have, there is no way that I can replicate my old unit as part of the imperium.
That Is an organisation of Infantry (Mech and Airbourne), artillery and armour, trained and equipped as such, that are part of the Air Force / Imperial Navy, that do missions within their ground fighting role, that are essential for flying operations.
i.e. seizing and holding ground that the I.N. need to conduct ops. Defence of supply routes. Recovery of downed aircrew. General Force Protection stuff.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Feb 24, 2012 11:12:53 GMT -5
Unfortunately, those kinds of things are not really the purview of the Navy. I could see an armsman team being used for pilot recovery, but defense of supply routes, taking and holding ground, security, etc, would not be conducted by navy personnel on the ground. It would either be Munitorium auxiliary style troops, PDF, or the Guard. The duty of the navy very, very rarely takes it dirtside. However, you could do a couple things.
First, a mercenary organization. They'd need to have a pretty wealthy patron to have a voidship at their disposal, but they could currently be working with the navy, and specialize in the kind of stuff you listed. While the Munitorium may not like it, the commander of that particular battlegroup may have made the call that your forces were needed.
Second, it can always be PDF forces on a war world (or from a planet in the same system as a war world), or what have you. Most worlds have at least some system defense ships, so deploying from those vessels wouldn't be out of the question for PDF units. The system ships would lack warp drives, but that's about it.
Third, you can always have them working for a Rogue Trader, who are more than willing to mix their land forces with their fleet assets. Inquisitors might be willing to do the same, although on a smaller scale, creating a personal force of Navy personnel for spec ops stuff and SAR missions.
Reds
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Post by RedCuffs on Feb 25, 2012 7:35:17 GMT -5
I see that I'm going to have to do some serious fluff crunching here. If I don't get to have a 40K version of the RAF Regt ... I'll be launching the powerfist right out of the pushchair !!!
Gentlemen, back to the Valkyrie tactics.
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Post by Lord General Armstrong on Feb 25, 2012 8:16:44 GMT -5
Naval vessels tend to rely on armsmen for boarding action defense, policing duties, etc. These can be purposed trained crewmen, ratings armed with shotguns and the like, or even mobs of low deck crew armed with pipes, wrenches, and whatever other makeshift weapons they can scrounge. I've pretty sure the Imperial Navy does not maintain any forces that normally deploy on the ground. Security for airfields would be handled normally by the IG, PDF, or Munitorium, and special operations missions would probably fall to Stormtrooper units that the vessel's captain has been ordered to transport to (and ideally from) the target. Imperial Navy armsmen do make planetary assaults generally as shock troopers for the initial invasion were their additional body armour and pressurized suits allow them to be deployed in some of the most dangerous environments (Hostiles, Atmosphere, Toxic Gases Etc.) They can be compared similarly to an Imperial Navy equivalent of Storm Troopers however lacking more armour penetrating weaponry less they risk damaging their own vessel. But they would never be used as a primary ground assault force. Find attached is an image of an Imperial Navy Landing Crew.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Feb 25, 2012 9:02:14 GMT -5
@armstrong: Is there a fluff example, though? I ask because that image looks like it's from 2nd Ed, and a lot of fluff has been ret-conned since then.
Red
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Post by Lord General Armstrong on Feb 25, 2012 17:50:12 GMT -5
I believe there should be and yes it would either be from second edition or one of the BFG books. But the current books don't generally give much detail on the navies anyway so, to me at least BFG is still canon. Also Execution Hour and Shadow Point have navy crews going ground side old novels yes but still good.
I will have to download the BFG Books and Second Edition so I can see where the picture originated from again.
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Post by RedCuffs on Feb 25, 2012 19:00:04 GMT -5
I'm still sulking !!! I mean a proper sulk. A "power sulk" from the dark side of the planet of death !!!
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Feb 26, 2012 8:38:55 GMT -5
Mercenaries, PDF and Renegades. No Tactica Imperium for us.
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Post by KRIEGEIRK on Feb 26, 2012 9:12:34 GMT -5
Mercenaries, PDF and Renegades. No Tactica Imperium for us. There needs to be! I've been wanting to do a Renegade army for quite some time.
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Post by hektorreborn on Mar 25, 2012 10:33:52 GMT -5
I really love this tactic, tho i use vendettas myself. Regardless, has anyone experimented with using this as a distraction to move up demolishers? I m trying to get some kind of list made W/o special characters that can really take the fight to marines..
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Mar 28, 2012 6:47:04 GMT -5
In my experience, the Leman Russ Demolisher goes well with pretty much any role.
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