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Post by F.K.M on Sept 15, 2010 17:54:52 GMT -5
So you mean you don't like the armor showing off their tits? I actually prefer the more revealing armor that they have to the armor you showed. The armor you showed gives them the appearance that they're flat-chested. It just doesn't feel right. Besides it's not like they have ginormous DD boobs that can barely be contained in their armor. Surprisingly GW even with its one titted slaaneshi daemonette models has kept the size of women's boobs down to a minimum or fairly average. Not something you'd expect with so many guys in the hobby considering the trend of big breasted women in anime and video games. Besides the current models give the sisters the feeling they're wearing their ovaries on the outside . I do agree the armor needs an update. I think they could tweek it a bit. and make the sisters look a little more badass. Why don't you want to come up with ideas for the model line? With every new codex comes new models whether they're brand new models or just updated looks for current models.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Sept 15, 2010 18:14:53 GMT -5
I'm actually with Mel on this... Real armor, when worn makes people a bit androgynous. I think that GW should actually try to sculpt a female face to depict women, rather than relying on boobs.
You do have a point, though: they're not as over-the-top as they could be.
But this thread is about updating the game - let's not get sidetracked.
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Post by Melissia on Sept 15, 2010 18:22:10 GMT -5
Regardless, I base Sisters off of the Knights Hospitalier, Knights Templar, Knights of Santiago, and so on, in the Medieval period, especially the crusades.
Martyrdom is an aspect of military-religious armies... but it does not need to be the most important aspect like many people seem to think. Making your enemy die is more important than dying by your enemy's hand.
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Post by F.K.M on Sept 16, 2010 14:15:50 GMT -5
I thought we already heard the whole martyrdom rant from you. It kind of annoyed me. I dunno i suppose the level of zealotry and martyrdom would be different from battle sister to battle sister esp. with certain ones like the eviscerator wielding ones being the most like martyrs. Honestly i don't see why you'd want them to live anyway as they've sinned against the emperor or whatever and they are crazed and whipped into battle. I guess from a tactical standpoint martyrdom would mean you'd deplete your forces way too frequently though. Too bad sisters don't have the numbers to replace like guard have. Not saying i'd want them as numerous as guard i'm just saying if sisters were more numerous than they are martyrdom wouldn't be such a bad thing. Your sisters still get stronger after losses though. Sorry once again i can't remember how the whole faith power thing works when you lose certain units or whatever. I've only fought sisters a total of one time in 3 years. It's sad i know.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Sept 16, 2010 14:33:09 GMT -5
*Stands back and waits.*
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Post by F.K.M on Sept 16, 2010 14:38:06 GMT -5
Yeah i know how to push melissia's buttons. It's fun and funny though.
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Post by unluckyguardsman on Sept 16, 2010 15:59:28 GMT -5
wow...just wow... way to ruin a good thread with a discussion of boobs...
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Post by Melissia on Sept 17, 2010 17:21:13 GMT -5
Okay, I'm gonna start working on this again. Final touches that need to be done are as follows: - Rework Canoness Praxedes almost entirely. Mostly her equipment and rules. I have a few ideas on this, to be posted later.
- Add two more Special Characters. Current ideas are a twin storm bolter upgrade character, and a High Priestess special character.
- Add one more Elites Choice option. Currently, I'm thinking of it being a storm bolter equipped teleport based squad that can ONLY arrive by deep strike and no other means (effectively, using a ship-board teleporter from orbit), with a pair of special weapons (no heavy) Afterwards, I want to rebalance Arco-Flagellants. This will round out the Elites options to four and one 0-1 choice, which matches with fifth edition codices (which actually usually have more, but Guard has the smallest number of Elites choices at four).
- Finish the Heirophant. This will bring their Heavy Support options up to five as well. After that, maybe one more vehicle (an Exorcist variant which fires artillery missiles instead of direct fire is what I have in mind), and Heavy Support will be done.
- Need to put the finishing touches on Faithful Citizens and Zealots, and add in Red Redemptionists as a 0-1 Zealots upgrade. This will finish both Troops and Fast Attack choices.
So, I'm basically almost done. edit: To FKM: If you have nothing on-topic to post, then stay out of my thread. There is no place here for witless trolls.
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Post by Hetfiltrator on Sept 17, 2010 17:51:57 GMT -5
Mel: Good luck and if you need any help I'm pretty much open.
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Post by F.K.M on Sept 19, 2010 1:11:14 GMT -5
5th edition seems to have a lot of heroes in its codexes so i figure you could use a couple canoness heroes, maybe an inquisitor witchhunter hero (if they still have inquisition in the new codex), and possibly some special troop or elite choice special characters. I mean we have sergeant telion, a ratling hero (old codexes), nork deddog, and all these special heroes. I figure you could use some special faith boosted hero (each main hero would have plenty of special rules and abilities of course) (possibly with a winged jetpack and a sort of iron halo). Maybe some individual special characters that have nothing to do with other units or choices like guardsmen marbo except maybe the sisters have some crazed repentia character. I figure you could have a repentia leader give them special bonuses maybe. I figure we could have a special character based around the living saint like a better living saint of a certain name and origin.
Honestly i'd give more ideas like faith powers or fixing the martyrdom systems but you keep shutting them down. What about praying? Like similar to bretonnians in fantasy if they pray they get some special abilities or it helps give them faith points to spend. Like for each squad not shooting or in melee (unless shouting litanies or something) you can declare are praying so if you have some units in transports or say at the beginning of a battle before much fighting gets in range you can declare to pray and you could probably even 'go to ground' and still pray. You can still pray and move obviously but i figure you can find ways to get in more points for praying. Each squad that prays would rack up some faith points and each faith power would take maybe 1 or 2. This could include instantly faithful units racking up faith points. I figure a praying system would sort of work if hammered out successfully. I still say you could use more elite artificer armored units (even just give the celestians artificer armor or something) and then get some more faith powers for your army.
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Post by havoc on Sept 19, 2010 11:59:21 GMT -5
yeah sob need canonness with meltagatler and 1++ save and.......
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Post by F.K.M on Sept 19, 2010 15:41:19 GMT -5
yeah sob need canonness with meltagatler and 1++ save and....... A meltagatler would be interesting though. What is that a melta gatling gun?
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Post by havoc on Sept 20, 2010 13:55:43 GMT -5
meltagalter is OP joke gun aka rendring pony,cookie cannon etc
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Post by Melissia on Sept 21, 2010 11:40:22 GMT -5
I have no intention of creating a melta gattler. I did have a lance melta weapon in mind at one point, but I instead went with the Portable Exorcist Launcher idea because I felt it was less of a strain on believability.
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Post by Melissia on Sept 26, 2010 10:48:47 GMT -5
Possible Exorcist variants, including a renamed primary tank. Exorcist Hunter: Uses the standard Exorcist Missile Launcher weapon, firing an advanced krak missile which strikes targets with massive force. Exorcist Lancer: Uses a highly focused melta weapon, which effectively is like an oversized cutting torch. Exorcist Hellfire: Uses a barrage of incendiary rockets which explode in mid air and spread lliquid fire over the enemy. Note that with this, I'm removing the Exorcist Mini-Launchers. Rather than giving it an upgrade for more variety, I decided variants would be more interesting.
Heavy SupportExorcist Launcher [/b][/tr] [tr][td]Exorcist Hunter[/td][td]4[/td][td]13[/td][td]11[/td][td]10[/td][/tr][/table] Type | Composition | Wargear | Special Rules |
[/b][/tr] [tr][td]Vehicle Tank[/td][td]1 Exorcist Hunter Tank[/td][td]Exorcist Missile Launcher Smoke Launchers[/td][td][/td][/tr][/table][/center] - May purchase the following:
- Dozer Blade: +10 pts
- Extra Armour: +15 pts
- Holy Icon: +10 pts
- Hunter-Killer Missile: +10 pts
- Laud Hailers: +15 pts
- Pintle-mounted Flamer: +10 pts
- Pintle-mounted Storm Bolter: +10 pts
Exorcist Missile Launcher: R48", S8 AP1, Heavy 2d3
Heavy SupportExorcist Lancer [/b][/tr] [tr][td]Exorcist Lancer[/td][td]4[/td][td]13[/td][td]11[/td][td]10[/td][/tr][/table] Type | Composition | Wargear | Special Rules |
[/b][/tr] [tr][td]Vehicle Tank[/td][td]1 Exorcist Lancer Tank[/td][td]Inferno Lance Smoke Launchers[/td][td][/td][/tr][/table][/center] - May purchase the following:
- Dozer Blade: +10 pts
- Extra Armour: +15 pts
- Holy Icon: +10 pts
- Hunter-Killer Missile: +10 pts
- Laud Hailers: +15 pts
- Pintle-mounted Flamer: +10 pts
- Pintle-mounted Storm Bolter: +10 pts
Inferno Lance:R24", S8 AP2, Heavy 1, Melta, Lance A recently developed weapon, formerly used exclusively by the Mechanicus. The Ecclesiarchy, on the urging of the newly reformed Sisters of Battle, purchased the rights to participate in the live fire testing of this weapon through various political maneuverings. The weapon is an enhanced form of multi-melta, a far more condensed beam which is comparable to a long-ranged cutting torch. Its range is not increased over the multi-melta, but its ability to cut through armor is-- it ALMOST replicates the Lance design used by the Eldar... though the Eldar would consider it unwieldly, remarkably primitive, and somewhat inefficient-- for extended battles, the vehicles that use it often have to be supported by Rhinos converted into ammunition carriers.
Heavy SupportExorcist Hellfire [/b][/tr] [tr][td]Exorcist Hellfire[/td][td]4[/td][td]13[/td][td]11[/td][td]10[/td][/tr][/table] Type | Composition | Wargear | Special Rules |
[/b][/tr] [tr][td]Vehicle Tank[/td][td]1 Exorcist Hellfire Tank[/td][td]Hellfire Launcher Smoke Launchers[/td][td][/td][/tr][/table][/center] - May purchase the following:
- Dozer Blade: +10 pts
- Extra Armour: +15 pts
- Holy Icon: +10 pts
- Hunter-Killer Missile: +10 pts
- Laud Hailers: +15 pts
- Pintle-mounted Flamer: +10 pts
- Pintle-mounted Storm Bolter: +10 pts
Hellfire LauncherR48", S5 AP- Heavy 2d3 Small Blast, Ignores Cover Saves The Ecclesiarchy is the primary practitioner of Chymistry outside of the Mechanicus. It thus was no surprise when they developed a new substance to put in Frag Missile warheads which, upon ignition, ignited and spread over its target, burning them alive. The process removed some of the armor penetrating powers of the heavy fragmentation missiles, but the results were still quite spectacular against massed formations of heretics, Orks, and Tyranids.
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Post by F.K.M on Sept 27, 2010 16:14:17 GMT -5
Why ap 2 for inferno lance? Shouldn't melta weapons all be ap 1? I know you're thinking of it as a bright lance but i still think it should be ap 1. The 24" range is ok i guess. It's not too spectacular though. However i have another problem with this variant of exorcist. If you have immolators with either twin-linked flamers or twin-linked multi-meltas then the multi-melta upgrade would probably make it obsolete in comparison to the new variant of exorcist. Also exorcists have organs and this fires more like the immolator's multi-meltas rather than from an organ like what the exorcists have. It's a very cool variant no doubt it's just it'd seem like it'd work better on the immolator rather than the exorcist. That or i suppose it'd be a really strangely designed exorcist with the organs probably facing forwards and lying down or having the tubes bend towards the enemy or something. It just sounds like the design for using it with an organ as the gun would not really work.
Why not just have your exorcists with weapon upgrades for each of the 3 types of missiles (a missile loadout for an exorcist would cost a certain amount) or just have different missiles come from different parts of the organ? Each vehicle is essentially the same vehicle with different missiles so yeah why have a different exorcist for each one? You might not even need different models for exorcists that shoot the 3 weapon types. It's not like you'll ever see the missiles. Though i suppose you could have a different looking organ for each type of exorcist.
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Post by Melissia on Sept 27, 2010 17:48:26 GMT -5
1: Balance, the weapon is extremely strong as it is. 2: You can have almost two Immolators for the cost of one Exorcist Lancer. 3: Balance, also, the Exorcist Missile Launchers are supposed to be rather finicky weapons.
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Post by Melissia on Sept 27, 2010 19:38:07 GMT -5
Reds tossed out this idea. Rough rules for her as follows:
Canoness Carmina Canoness of the Order of the Argent Shroud who coordinated the defense of the Fire Wastes in the Armageddon Campaign. Her tactics kept the facilities operational and it's pretty much due to her and the Sororitas that the fire wastes stayed in imperial hands
Canoness statline, with Relentless, and a Heavy Bolter w/Blessed Ammunition. Cost undecided.
Special rules:
Crossfire: If the Canoness (Or the unit containing the canoness) fires at a unit, all units with the Adepta Sororitas rule may reroll hits in the shooting phase against that unit for the rest of the turn
Strategic Mastery: May choose to re-roll any reserve rolls (whether or not they failed).
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Post by F.K.M on Sept 28, 2010 3:58:32 GMT -5
Well if that's the case i don't know why you'd want the melta lance exorcist. If you can get two vehicles with just as much armor and each one sports a twin-linked multi-melta for the same price as one exorcist that has the same range, only ap 2, and whose only advantage is the lance then why get the melta lance exorcist. I just don't know they're very samey. I feel like you need to tweak the points costs more or make them different enough so that they are both viable choices. You can keep them both having different types of melta weapons i just expect to see more difference than one pretty much just being a lance weapon and the other being twin-linked with ap 1. I dunno the exorcist with the melta lance feels a little weak for its points. I suppose if you have trouble killing russes and landraiders then ok but still.
The canoness seems pretty good. Reminds me a bit of the tau pathfinders or something though. What about more faith based canonesses that allow for more faith powers due to some inspiring presence or cling to life like commissar yarrick (basically their undying faith brings them back to life after losing all wounds on a roll of +3 kind of like yarrick or maybe the living saint)? Then the sister's characters would need a lot more eternal warrior so that they can shrug off stuff that would normally outright kill any other human or faithless heretic leader. What about making any assault based canonesses? For some reason i don't see a canoness with a power fist but maybe some specialty power weapons or chainswords. Maybe even a power whip that reduces leadership of said unit.
You guys remember way back to when you said sisters of battle possibly didn't get actual faith powers and it just described when something would just be more accurate or whatever. Well then how do you explain the living saint? How the hell is the living saint not a faith based character? She has wings and flies and possibly has her own special abilities. I don't know think what you want.
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Post by Melissia on Sept 28, 2010 11:00:33 GMT -5
Immolators have frontal armor 12.
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Post by Melissia on Oct 2, 2010 8:06:31 GMT -5
Special Character HQCanoness Carmina of the Fire WastesUndecided pts | WS | BS | S | T | W | I | A | LD | SV |
[/b][/tr] [tr][td]Canoness Carmina[/td][td]5[/td][td]5[/td][td]3[/td][td]3[/td][td]3[/td][td]4[/td][td]3[/td][td]10[/td][td]3+/4++[/td][/tr][/table] Type | Composition | Wargear | Special Rules |
[/b][/tr] [tr][td]Infantry Independant Character Special Character Jump Infantry[/td][td]1 Canoness Carmina 0 or 4 Retributors[/td][td]Relic of the Apostasy Power Armor Rosarius Frag/Krak Grenades[/td][td]Adepta Sororitas Book of Saints Relentless Crossfire Strategic Mastery[/td][/tr][/table][/center] - Grants 2 Faith Points
- May purchase four Retributors as retinue for 125 points
- Retinue is equipped with heavy bolters w/Blessed Ammunition
Relic of the Apostasy Counts as a Heavy Bolter w/Blessed Ammunition. Grants Relentless to its bearer. Crossfire If the Canoness (Or the unit containing the canoness) fires at a unit, all units with the Adepta Sororitas rule may reroll hits in the shooting phase against that unit for the rest of the turn. Strategic Mastery As long as Canoness Carmina has not been removed from play, the player may choose to re-roll any reserve rolls (regardless of if they pass or fail). The second result must be accepted.
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Post by Jackal-0311 on Oct 2, 2010 19:38:00 GMT -5
I like the Russ idea but not sure if that would fit with SoB....? What abouts something based of a Predator chassis. When so you plan on consolidating everthing?
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Post by Melissia on Oct 4, 2010 6:27:04 GMT -5
No, I don't feel like ripping off a tank from the Marines. As far as this thread is concerned, the Space Marines can go suck a lemon.
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Post by havoc on Oct 5, 2010 8:32:17 GMT -5
No, I don't feel like ripping off a tank from the Marines. . oh the irony after you stole 50% of wargear form the other factions
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Oct 5, 2010 11:27:43 GMT -5
Not so much that they stole it, as that those things are common throughout the Imperium's armed forces.
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