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Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on Nov 11, 2011 12:41:41 GMT -5
Take it easy Lupus, don't let the negativity get you down.
RT hasn't been happy with a GW release since they came out with the Valkyrie...
Anyway, almost every book in 5th has it's own amount of cheese. If you don't like cut throat lists designed to win at all costs...just avoid tournaments and don't play with jerks.
and remember, now matter how many dirty tricks you hear about...you'll probably never encounter them all at once, so if that cheeseball unit or special character is giving you grief...kill the bastards with a battle cannon and then move on to the next target...and if they get back up you hit them again...
Don't sweat what the enemy is going to do to you, concentrate on what you are going to do to them.
We are the Imperial Guard and our supplies are limitless. We will win eventually. One victory is worth the lives of a million guardsmen...humanity will preserver no matter what!
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Post by Machine Gun Kelly on Nov 11, 2011 13:06:10 GMT -5
I haven´t put any thought into the gaming version of Necrons so I haven´t commented it. But I do miss the "bogey man"-"Ghosts walking out of the wall silently killing everyone" kind of fluff. Giving out personalities and more history doesn´t necessary make the army better.
In my humble opinion the codex would have been better if it were compiled as written by Ordo Xenos. That way the sinister secrets and the mystery of the necrons could still be there while upgrading the army section.
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Post by Romer on Nov 11, 2011 13:19:04 GMT -5
Had a flick through the codex myself yesterday and it seems alright.
I found some of the fluff a little contrived, but the general direction seems pretty good. The rules struck me as pretty well done, whilst as I've said before, the models are well put together and designed. Just not my thing.
The Pariahs business is a fuss to try and find a problem in my opinion. GW shelve units and bring them back later or in other forms all the time. The Pariah gene is supposed to be extremely rare, so maybe they can still function in the background, just not on the front line.
I still think it's important everybody remembers that though we may not have rules or units that make you roll your eyes like Grey Knights, we're still the owners of a wonderfully overpowered codex and are pretty much the father of the game plan everybody seems to moan about these days (AV11-12 spam and autocannon spam). The current Guard codex was brilliantly concieved for once, but badly finished.
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Post by Gabriel Lupus on Nov 11, 2011 13:55:10 GMT -5
*Takes a 'chill pill'... * Yeah... I think I need to go back to letting the muppetry wash past me... I just get a little flustered when people are overly happy to complain about things they haven't tried or even seen the official version of - especially when it's something I like and have passion for... The Pariahs business is a fuss to try and find a problem in my opinion. GW shelve units and bring them back later or in other forms all the time. The Pariah gene is supposed to be extremely rare, so maybe they can still function in the background, just not on the front line. Finally a voice of reason ...
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Nov 11, 2011 13:57:46 GMT -5
I honestly have little to complain about with the rules. Really, my biggest complaint is that the canoptek wraiths are not the wraiths of yesteryear. Better, worse, doesn't matter; I miss being able to go through impassible terrain.
I can't complain about how every set of SCs is 'the same but different' anymore. That's just what the game is now, and if they didn't do it in the new codecies, there'd be something missing from the competitiveness. Or it would at least frustrate the fragile sensibilities of the target market.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Nov 11, 2011 18:07:19 GMT -5
RT hasn't been happy with a GW release since they came out with the Valkyrie... Love the models, dislike the prices, tired of the rules.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Nov 11, 2011 18:28:05 GMT -5
RT hasn't been happy with a GW release since they came out with the Valkyrie... Love the models, dislike the prices, tired of the rules. I've all but stopped playing tt in favor of Dark Heresy. With a bit of leeway in the rules, it's much more representative of 40K on a more personal level, which is what I want, anyway.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Nov 11, 2011 18:41:40 GMT -5
Love the models, dislike the prices, tired of the rules. I've all but stopped playing tt in favor of Dark Heresy. With a bit of leeway in the rules, it's much more representative of 40K on a more personal level, which is what I want, anyway. Likewise, with Tempest and possibly Tomorrow's War.
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Post by Hetfiltrator on Nov 12, 2011 18:29:48 GMT -5
People are fighting. Now I'm sad...
Edit. Now they've stopped!
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Nov 12, 2011 21:14:55 GMT -5
I think I've come to terms with the Necron release. As someone who plays an "unloved" army, I'm happy to see Cron players get an update. I'm still not sure about some of the units, or the SCs (Again, it's Ward, he either writes them as "Suck" or "Overpowered" usually). Having Crons become Space Tomb Kings is a bit contrived, like Romer said, but what are you going to do? We can't all get awesome fluff like the DE did, and at least it's something. I was never really familiar with the past Codex, so I'll have to judge the new one on the games I play with Trooper.
Really, I only have two complaints, and I've aired them before. My biggest annoyance with the fluff is that I think it would have been better used on another Xeno race of some kind, and it just feels like wasted potential (although I know they can't always introduce another army every year, since they don't support all the current ones). I'm also not a fan of the trend that this seems to be setting with army updates. First, Space Marines suddenly all viewed Marneus Calgar as their spiritual Liege, then Grey Knights became heretics, and now the Crons are a wholly different army. I understand retcons happen, but that doesn't mean they're necessary, and I'm worried about Templars, which have always been my favorite canon SM chapter, and are supposedly getting a Codex before 6th Ed.
Reds
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Post by emptyhat on Nov 12, 2011 21:36:23 GMT -5
Grey Knights are heretics now?
Also if they release Bretonnians before Templars then look forwards to total overlap between them!
(I don't think that will actually happen though)
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Nov 12, 2011 21:58:21 GMT -5
Grey Knights are heretics now? Also if they release Bretonnians before Templars then look forwards to total overlap between them! (I don't think that will actually happen though) I could stand to have a bit more Bretonnian in my Templars, to be honest. I think that would be kind of cool. As for the GK, I don't want to start that whole debacle again, so let me put it this way; If it quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, and conducts demonic rituals and uses warp tainted objects like a duck, I think it's safe to say it's a duck, even if it's labeled "Duck Hunter". Reds
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Post by Hetfiltrator on Nov 12, 2011 22:03:31 GMT -5
Grey Knights are heretics now? Also if they release Bretonnians before Templars then look forwards to total overlap between them! (I don't think that will actually happen though) I could stand with a bit more Bretonnian in my Templars, to be honest. I think that would be kind of cool. As for the GK, I don't want to start that whole debacle again, so let me put it this way; If it quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, and conducts demonic rituals and uses warp tainted objects like a duck, I think it's safe to say it's a duck, even if it's labeled "Duck Hunter". Reds As Indrick Boreal would say "Spess mahrines rhidin Poniz!"
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Post by emptyhat on Nov 12, 2011 23:01:15 GMT -5
I could stand to have a bit more Bretonnian in my Templars, to be honest. I think that would be kind of cool. Reds You say that now but wait until they re-pimp the Bretonnian Army book GK is one codex I'd never buy so I'll take your word for it.
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Post by Rook on Nov 14, 2011 21:28:26 GMT -5
Had a sample play against the new codex. I was using guard.
My thoughts;
The little scarab swarm tomb spider things(the ones that affect armor) are damn good at wrecking vehicles yet die in droves against assaulting ogryns('instant death' versus furious charging ogryns). Interested to see how they fair/fare against squadrons of vehicles. Their rules seem wonky. I will say that according to the rules you can play the wound allocation game against them because some models will have their armor removed and others won't. Think on this.
The rule replacing the WBB rolls are more powerful in my experience. The models must be placed in coherency with the rest of the squad. Essentially they can be placed in area terrain, or closer to models you wish to assault, or closer to objectives, etc. Huge chance to exploit.
The Monolith is a joke now. It can't get away from a melta bomb equipped squad to saves it's life.
Also never thought I'd see a rapid fire sniper rifle.
And I think the immortals are either under priced or over powered.
Edit: Just read the last three pages of this thread. You guys are above petty arguments. Bring the love!
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Obscura
Lieutenant
Danger Close
Posts: 124
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Post by Obscura on Nov 16, 2011 17:30:07 GMT -5
I can't wait till they release Doom Scythe's, then my power gaming will sky rocket!
:3
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Post by F.K.M on Nov 18, 2011 10:51:14 GMT -5
Had a sample play against the new codex. I was using guard. My thoughts; The little scarab swarm tomb spider things(the ones that affect armor) are damn good at wrecking vehicles yet die in droves against assaulting ogryns('instant death' versus furious charging ogryns). Interested to see how they fair/fare against squadrons of vehicles. Their rules seem wonky. I will say that according to the rules you can play the wound allocation game against them because some models will have their armor removed and others won't. Think on this. The rule replacing the WBB rolls are more powerful in my experience. The models must be placed in coherency with the rest of the squad. Essentially they can be placed in area terrain, or closer to models you wish to assault, or closer to objectives, etc. Huge chance to exploit. The Monolith is a joke now. It can't get away from a melta bomb equipped squad to saves it's life. Also never thought I'd see a rapid fire sniper rifle. And I think the immortals are either under priced or over powered. Edit: Just read the last three pages of this thread. You guys are above petty arguments. Bring the love! *romantic music turns on* *holds rook's hand and moves towards him to kiss him slowly* Oh enough of that lol jk. Obscura: I was always under the impression everybody hated power gamers or was that sarcasm again OoO?
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Obscura
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Danger Close
Posts: 124
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Post by Obscura on Nov 18, 2011 11:34:19 GMT -5
I was being sarcastic, but I do plan to buy at least three of them.
Unfortunately, I can't exactly rely upon the rock steadiness of my Monoliths these days due to the rule changes. They'll pretty much sit on my shelves until the bi monthly Apocalypse games roll around.
Right now I'm really enjoying the game time I'm having with my Fighty Robots.
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Post by F.K.M on Nov 18, 2011 16:42:14 GMT -5
Unfortunately, I can't exactly rely upon the rock steadiness of my Monoliths these days due to the rule changes. They'll pretty much sit on my shelves until the bi monthly Apocalypse games roll around. It sucks when they change the rules for units like that. I used to rely on my veterans sneaking up on the enemy. At least as a troop choice you can have lots of special weapons and use them to blow MC's straight to hell. Almost wondering if it's a bad thing we get so many special weapons. I don't think there are many other factions that have such an easy time with MC's as guard.
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Obscura
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Danger Close
Posts: 124
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Post by Obscura on Nov 18, 2011 17:15:46 GMT -5
Every army needs to have it's ups and downs, otherwise we'd all be playing the same lists/armies against each other. Plus, I just tend to get into new armies for the modelling/sculpting/converting potential, if I didn't like playing my Necrons, I'd build them to the best of my ability and sell them off for a tidy sum.
Granted, you'll always have to deal with 'net lists and peoples complaints, but that's simply the nature of the game. If you want something equal, your best bet is to start playing Chess, equal pieces but it all comes down to strategy.
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Post by F.K.M on Nov 18, 2011 20:22:47 GMT -5
Yes well i find balance to be a hard thing to do esp. with games where there's like 15 races (warhammer fantasy holy crap!). Really i think they've done an alright job but i'd have to say certain races/factions are better at taking out others. For instance high elves are really good in combat esp. thanks to always strikes first having re-rolls to hit in 8th and they almost always get to use them too. I think that was a huge oversight. However against shooting armies like dwarfs, empire and wood elves the high elves and dark elves tend to eat it hard. Unfortunately some races like skaven have little to no shooting and have to rely on other things like magic. Usually melee ends badly against high elves unless you can shoot or magic them to death and i hear their magic is pretty nasty. The balance is decent given all the races but some armies are almost geared to beat others and even some races are almost geared to kill others in games. One thing that makes skaven good is their speed and high elves top it. With 40k i'm still convinced guard have a hard time with tau (mostly disruption pods even with the weakness of them). It's also unfortunate some units are fairly useless in my opinion. If you take gaunts it's a bad idea at least against guard. Somehow shooting, drop pods and genestealer rush seem like your best options.
Back on topic though the necrons are alright looking. I'm better the rules game-wise aren't too bad even though i haven't seen them yet. I'm sure more imbalanced or stupid codexes have been made. The fluff is bad in mat ward codexes from what i hear. However i heard in the chaos codex most people were pissed that they focused on the red corsairs and not so much on the legions (basically turning it into a chaos version of a marine codex).
Oh and am i the only one that was disappointed they didn't have new heavy weapons for guard like the plasma cannon or mole launcher? If nothing else it would've made a cooler addition than all the tanks of which only a few ever got used.
Also for all GW does wrong i feel they did the dark eldar codex right. Probably about everything is great in that codex.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Nov 18, 2011 20:44:33 GMT -5
They couldn't use a mole launcher because that's ymmot's territory. Not as fearsome as the squirrel cannon, but not every gun should be a planet cracker.
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Post by Rook on Nov 20, 2011 0:33:17 GMT -5
Had a sample play against the new codex. I was using guard. My thoughts; The little scarab swarm tomb spider things(the ones that affect armor) are damn good at wrecking vehicles yet die in droves against assaulting ogryns('instant death' versus furious charging ogryns). Interested to see how they fair/fare against squadrons of vehicles. Their rules seem wonky. I will say that according to the rules you can play the wound allocation game against them because some models will have their armor removed and others won't. Think on this. The rule replacing the WBB rolls are more powerful in my experience. The models must be placed in coherency with the rest of the squad. Essentially they can be placed in area terrain, or closer to models you wish to assault, or closer to objectives, etc. Huge chance to exploit. The Monolith is a joke now. It can't get away from a melta bomb equipped squad to saves it's life. Also never thought I'd see a rapid fire sniper rifle. And I think the immortals are either under priced or over powered. Edit: Just read the last three pages of this thread. You guys are above petty arguments. Bring the love! *romantic music turns on* *holds rook's hand and moves towards him to kiss him slowly* Oh enough of that lol jk. Obscura: I was always under the impression everybody hated power gamers or was that sarcasm again OoO? I will rape parts of you.
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Post by F.K.M on Nov 20, 2011 11:49:37 GMT -5
So this is date rape then or is it serial killer rape?
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Post by Trooper One-Nine-Seven-Four on Nov 20, 2011 13:52:31 GMT -5
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