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Post by genilyenovick on Aug 10, 2010 21:54:17 GMT -5
Man I'm sick of people dogging on the punisher. It is a perfectly useful tank for anti-infantry. Yes it doesn't have the AP advantages of the exterminator that's for sure. But as far as I go I like to play with the idea that if you roll enough dice something will die. Every one plays infantry in some respect, and we use the same principle with that. Its just here it has a 14 front armor value. I use a punisher with 3 heavy bolters and a heavy stubber for 32 shots. It's like having an infantry squad with a higher strength on the weapons.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Aug 10, 2010 22:38:09 GMT -5
It's true. When compared to two platoon squads, it's not so bad. But a three squad platoon could be armed to the teeth for the price of a punisher, and have all the benefits of a troop choice and infantry over tank benefits.
It comes down to the metagame.
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Post by ssgtdude (M.I.A) on Aug 10, 2010 22:57:11 GMT -5
I see the use if you are playing against a hoard of ork boyz, in an Apoc game, or even against a hoard of gaunts, but over all the tank has yet to find its real purpose in the game. While it appears to be a great cannon for the infantry the ap of the weapon just isn't worth the points being spent on it.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Aug 10, 2010 23:13:47 GMT -5
Considering against a horde, You'll statistically get about as many, if not more, unsaved wounds from the basic, cheap Russ?
Yeah. It's purpose is forcing wounds on single characters or small squads.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Aug 11, 2010 6:26:30 GMT -5
In short, regular Russ is best Russ.
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Post by WestRider on Aug 11, 2010 13:06:20 GMT -5
Man I'm sick of people dogging on the punisher. It is a perfectly useful tank for anti-infantry. Yes it doesn't have the AP advantages of the exterminator that's for sure. The AP is hardly the only advantage of the Exterminator. The extra Range is what really makes the difference for me, along with the ability to use it for things other than Anti-Infantry.
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Post by Laughing Man on Aug 11, 2010 13:25:24 GMT -5
If you listen carefully enough when a punisher spins it's barrels up you can hear a faint whine that sounds like someone saying "faaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiillllllllll"
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Post by Adam Selene on Aug 12, 2010 5:06:39 GMT -5
Basically GW gave guard the best anti-guard weapon, why?
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Post by nilkimas on Aug 12, 2010 7:23:43 GMT -5
Heretics everywhere.
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Post by portcullis on Aug 13, 2010 18:20:21 GMT -5
I can't believe how short the punnisher cannon is. For the points it should be atleast 48". Or S6 or AP5. As it is its tooooo short range and the med to low str and no AP give it next to no niche to focus on..
For the privelage you get to pay 30 more pts than standard which fires further, harder and with great AP. Arguably could still hit as many targets too?!
Punisher looks awesome but doesnt deliver.
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Post by genilyenovick on Aug 15, 2010 13:48:38 GMT -5
For the privelage you get to pay 30 more pts than standard which fires further, harder and with great AP. Arguably could still hit as many targets too?!
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Post by genilyenovick on Aug 15, 2010 13:54:04 GMT -5
Sorry for double post had a miss click. The fact is that even in the math hammer you would get more hits with the punisher than the executioner just because you have 5x as many shots. So the average does go up.
The fact is that I like the idea of dice versus AP. In many situation yes the AP has a great effect. But make them roll enough saves and their bound to fail some. Yes I wouldn't take this against most MEQ's. But So far against guard and eldar it has performed well in all its functions and its unfortunate that none of you have had the same positive experience with it that I have.
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Post by portcullis on Aug 16, 2010 14:38:07 GMT -5
Sorry for double post had a miss click. The fact is that even in the math hammer you would get more hits with the punisher than the executioner just because you have 5x as many shots. So the average does go up. The fact is that I like the idea of dice versus AP. In many situation yes the AP has a great effect. But make them roll enough saves and their bound to fail some. Yes I wouldn't take this against most MEQ's. But So far against guard and eldar it has performed well in all its functions and its unfortunate that none of you have had the same positive experience with it that I have. Aye, best looking tank in my opinion but in a take all corners list its just not for me. Telling your opponent you have a gun that is Heavy 20 usually makes them recoil in shock a bit. I love that, its things like that that make me play 40K. Had I the money I would have one just for fun.
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Post by Machine Gun Kelly on Aug 17, 2010 5:23:31 GMT -5
I wonder if the Punisher is best used to take out squadrons of AV10 vehicles.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Aug 17, 2010 12:35:20 GMT -5
I wonder if the Punisher is best used to take out squadrons of AV10 vehicles. That would only be reliable with Pask, further increasing the cost of the tank. I'd say it's good against daemons, and great against foolishly brave SCs who think they can walk around without meat shields.
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Post by genilyenovick on Aug 17, 2010 13:50:56 GMT -5
I will have to try that some time against like vipers or war walkers. Lots of strength 5 shots could do the trick.
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Post by Julian Sharps on Aug 18, 2010 0:04:22 GMT -5
It might be useful for slowing down AV 10 vehicle squadrons, as the chances of destroying them are slim with a S5 AP - weapon. The short range is a real problem, though.
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Post by genilyenovick on Aug 19, 2010 0:53:15 GMT -5
Strength 5 is plenty. And At 32 shots fully loaded you can get enough dice to get a decent number of pens and glances. The range is only a problem based on play style. I don't play static gun line so my chances of getting in range are better. I think this tank better fits the role of close armor support or mixed unit tactics than gun line brawler.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Aug 19, 2010 10:10:24 GMT -5
Demolisher, Executioner, and Punisher are all tanks that should be moved forward at least once.
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Post by sirdrasco on Aug 19, 2010 10:26:06 GMT -5
Based on performance I would use all Bolters on it. but due to range issues, it would need an infantry escort to survive. But against some armies it would rule against Horde armies like Nids, and orks. At HB range that's 9 shots possible, at optimum range thats 29 shots of pure fury. I see this very effective in city fight, what with the shorter ranges.
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Aug 20, 2010 12:15:49 GMT -5
Use an Eradicator. No cover, no armour, large blast, longer range. No matter what you try with a Punisher, your foe will either be getting armour or cover saves.
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Post by Rook on Aug 21, 2010 20:17:38 GMT -5
Perhaps we should do some 'Math Hammer' on this Punisher.
Feel free to jump in where I may be wrong.
The main targets will be guardsmen(the thread mentions hordes).
Pask will not be included in the numbers because he makes ALL tanks better. All shots are BS 3= 50% hits
20 shots at Str 5(main gun)= 10 hits 9 shots at Str 5(Hvy Bolters)= 4.5 hits 3 shots at Str4(Hvy Stubber)= 1.5 hits
10 hits x 5/6= 8.3333 4.5 hits x 5/6= 3.75 1.5 hits x 2/3= 1 Grand total of 13 but the 3.75 would not get armor saves. the 9.3333 remaining would save 1/3 of those wounds for 6.221. So 6.221+3.75= 9.971 dead guardsmen from 32 shots inside of 24" with the vehicle at a standstill.
Anyone care to help me with templates and deviation for the other Russes? That level of math/trig I have not learned(because I thought I'd never need it...DAMN YOU school counselor!!)
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Post by WestRider on Aug 21, 2010 21:23:17 GMT -5
There's way too much variation in the number and formation of target Models to be able to come up with a worthwhile MathHammer analysis of Blasts for most reasonable situations. I've tried, and except for firing at single Model targets (MCs, Tanks, etc.), it just gets way too complicated way too fast.
The Punisher is noticeably better at killing Infantry than the Exterminator (5.16 kills/100Points vs. 3.90 against Orks under a KFF), which is the only one that can be easily compared, but it loses out badly in terms of Range and Flexibility, which is where my complaints with it start to come in.
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Post by Laughing Man on Aug 22, 2010 3:24:03 GMT -5
That's the main problem the punisher is a 1 trick pony, i'd rather take a demolisher or a standard russ.
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Post by portcullis on Aug 23, 2010 14:15:32 GMT -5
That's the main problem the punisher is a 1 trick pony, i'd rather take a demolisher or a standard russ. Demolisher! Same range, massive damage, low AP, less points! Whats not to like...
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