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Post by Rook on Apr 24, 2011 20:10:31 GMT -5
I don't know if this has been mentioned so here goes...
The Punisher comes into it's own when attacking single models with invul saves. Face it, how many times has a SC lived because he/she could shed the 2 wounds from a BC/LC combination. I know I've seen it dozens of times.
Also can be used as an 'anti-assault' tank. When your tanks get assaulted the Punisher can fire with zero chance of damaging any of your own tanks(or entire army)...ever.
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Post by Walrus on Apr 25, 2011 0:23:32 GMT -5
In the debut DE match in WD against catachans, a Punisher killed lilleath hetrsperax (or however it's spelt) when she was right in front of a vet squad...
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Post by treadiculous on Apr 30, 2011 16:50:05 GMT -5
... wow... I just played a game where my punisher made its points back... I'm stunned!!... its never done that before... it took out a load of dire avengers from within a ruined building, then totalled a wave serpent with expensive bright lances, it also cut chunks out of a wraithlord but didn't fell it... unfortunately it got wrecked by his harlequins, but at least they weren't chewing up other units!
first real achievement in 5 or 6 deployments
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Post by Empirespy on Apr 30, 2011 17:13:37 GMT -5
I'm not sure if it's been mentioned but in assaults the enemy needs strength 5 to glance it on 6s so in that respect it's better than a LRBT. Also it's a lot more predictable than all the blast weapons. If only it were pinning.
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Post by krasimirova on May 1, 2011 9:54:55 GMT -5
Also it's a lot more predictable than all the blast weapons. If only it were pinning. Nope.. Battle cannons, Nova cannons, executioner cannons and demolisher cannons deny armor saves and they don't get a -1 on the pen. roll on the damage table.. 1/3 chance of a hit being rolled, and if that hit is on any reasonably sized unit 5 out of 6 models in that unit will die, I'd rather have that anyday.. (+ there is the fact that a large blast needs to scatter at least 3" before it leaves the center of a single 20mm model) The stuff you need to fear a assault from is wearing powerfist or powerclaw or has the pre-fix Monsterous.. So the AV 11 isn't gonna help that much.. In my experience (which is only 12 games with the punisher, truth be told) the punisher has never payed itself back.. Not point wise, support wise or magnet wise.. Any other tank we have will do the job better than the punisher.. If you are really looking for a horde-slayer get the exterminator with HB sponsons.. More range, better weapons and 10 points cheaper.. Sure it dosn't have the AV 11, but it has range 48" on the main weapon so if you get assaulted it means you havn't been shooting enough.. I like treadiculous for posting some experience on the Punisher, that is much better than the meta-talk most of the people in this thread is doing.. |
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Post by treadiculous on Jun 6, 2011 16:56:29 GMT -5
Ay Up Lads... just had a thought... if the Punisher were to have storm bolters in its sponsons, it could move and keep shooting, and the 24" range would be less of an issue since its main gun is that range... making it a teeny weeny tiny ickle wickle bit better in a city fight... or not...
I had thought this might be useful for the other non-ordnance LRBT variants too... hat do you reckon (sorry if this takes the thread off topic for a bit, but I didn't want to post a new one on such a minor discusiion point)...
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Post by Trickstick on Jun 7, 2011 2:47:32 GMT -5
I think that heavy stubber sponsons would be better. It would look more Guard.
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Post by krasimirova on Jun 7, 2011 5:42:40 GMT -5
Please let this thread die..! The punisher is the worst thing we have.. Periode and I/people have posted the reasons in plenty in this thread.. The only positive thing to say about it is that it is rear AV11.. On ALL other acounts the Exterminator with HB sponsons is better..
Now here is the sum of this thread: Take the Punisher and loose more than you win.. Look at our Heavy Choices..! Why would you take the piece of junk when we have so many good tanks in this slot..?
#/Rage=0, off... Sorry but it had to be said..
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Post by Trickstick on Jun 7, 2011 19:58:56 GMT -5
The punisher, the only tank name that applies to the person fielding the unit and not the enemy. Demolishers demolish the enemy. Exterminators exterminate them. Punishers, on the other hand, punish your points and then punish you for taking them.
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Post by ElegaicRequiem on Jun 7, 2011 21:39:01 GMT -5
Please let this thread die..! I've ready this thread so many times, I'm starting to want to use the punisher! |
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Post by special ed on Jun 8, 2011 15:12:13 GMT -5
Those of u who complain about the punisher I ask a simple question have u actually played the tank in a setting where it excells say citys of death aganist eldar space marine scouts or even other guard? I have I find u need the right tool for the right job yes it has the potnential to kill marines but use it for mop-up job that's what it is for punishing small 5 man squads through volume of fire plain and simple with 3 heavy bolters and the main gun the volume of fire and small squad sizes make it useful not as great as some other tanks but use it where it can help
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Post by dragoon6 on Jun 10, 2011 0:17:47 GMT -5
I'm gonna have to throw my hat into this. (sorry krasimirova). I'm in the camp that the Punisher has it's place, and that it does something well. I think that it is very good at "finishing the job", and it is reliable. (you can argue that it's reliably poor if you want, but that hardly takes away from my point.)
What it does NOT do, is perform well for the whole game. However, as a game progresses, Blast weapons get worse for the points, while direct fire weapons improve. Blast weapons have decent chance to nothing. A well kitted Punisher rolls 32 dice. it's not going to whiff.
Basiclly, the breakdown is this. If I shoot a battle cannon, and hit a squad of five clumped to gether, I will probably inflict five wounds, about half of the time, and two or three another quarter, and none some of the time. Call it anaverage of four. If I shoot the punisher at this some squad, I will proabably still inflict five wounds. But it will also inflict five wounds next turn too. and the next turn, and the next, and the next.
The battle cannon will not inflict big wounds anymore, unless you are fighting a very large force.
My position: The Punisher not a great tank. Not by a long shot. But if it cost about 40 pts less......I'd porobably take it. but only one. It's just too specific to make multiples of this dice spitter. If you happen to roll hot, or need a battle tank that you don't wan't to scatter for, you can take it. but I bet you like the Exterminator better.
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Post by KRIEGEIRK on Jul 17, 2011 20:42:56 GMT -5
I'd have to agree with the couple of statements above. while Ive never personally used the Punisher, i thought about the 20 gatling shots it takes. it looks attractive at first, but like some said above, youll hit some, and miss some. youll wound some and you wont wound some. then you have to take into effect cover and armor saves. Just seems like you'd be better off lobbing a battle cannon round into the middle of them and blowing half the squads to smitherines, then clean up shop with HB sponsons and the stubber to clear out whoever survived that.
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Post by nicholls on Aug 21, 2011 1:15:16 GMT -5
I love my punisher tanks x2 never leave home without em. Im a fan of the executioner too but if you roll scatter like I do trust me you`d take the punisher too. add Pask to one of them = deadly...
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Post by krasimirova on Aug 21, 2011 14:48:30 GMT -5
Nicholls.. That is 410 points, and that is the barebone Punisher.. So 450 points if you bring the sponsons.. That is around 1/3 or 1/4th of your entire army.. And as some people in this thread says, you can use it to finish off enemy units.. Yeah! Super..! Except if that enemy is in a Rhino, chimera or even a AV10 Raider, because you can't reach it with your 24" range.. I won't try to convince anybody about the fact that the punisher is a useless piece of crap that dosn't fill any meaningfull firing niche (Finishing off units.. Seriously..? How about shooting it with real guns instead.. Bring plasma, melta, flamers, autocannons, battlecannons, lascannons, multilasers, Multiple Rocket Pods, and heavy flamers.. <-- If that dosn't work, bring more.. They have the best price to result ratio..) But I know that if you bring the Punisher you are spending points, alot, that could be used for some of the above.. Good luck and I hope you bring the Punisher against me if we ever play..  |
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Post by nicholls on Aug 21, 2011 15:41:53 GMT -5
lol I love my x2 punishers. (and I would bring them if I were to play you my friend) I wouldn't necessarily bring them both in 1500pt game but keep in mind that we (IG) have tons of anti tank weapons for those pesky Rhinos and Land Raiders. Main objective when I play, open up all enemy transports via HW teams and Vendettas and make them foot slog their way to my front line. (where my punishers will be waiting...for you  |
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Post by richie on Aug 22, 2011 16:58:19 GMT -5
I think they are great, ive played near 2 dozen games with mine and its great. Yes it doesnt always make its points back, but personally i dont think that choosing a unit based on how often it makes its points back realy works. Its all down to army composition and how you use it. Just as a side note the guy that won best imperial guard player at Throne of Skulls in April ran 2 punishers. Like i said its about how you use your list.
Yes there are cheeper options but the same could be said about any codex. Thunderfire cannon or librarian for example - both viable options but its down to how you use them.
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Post by Jackal-0311 on Aug 22, 2011 18:07:53 GMT -5
Right or wrong here is my .02 cents.
By all rights an Air Cav IG list shouldn't work, but as Sharps and Rt (and others) have shown it does. How...? Good tactics, plain and simple.
This how i view any weapon platform that we as IG have at our disposal. If play to the weapon's strength and use good tactic, it will work.
So if you fancy the Punisher, have at it and slay the filth from our galaxy.
Jackal, OUT!
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Post by WestRider on Aug 22, 2011 18:56:20 GMT -5
The thing about AirCav, though, is that the Valk and Vendetta let you do end-runs on a lot of the conventions and expectations on which regular 40K is founded. It's fragile, but because it lets you do something completely different, you can use that as a springboard to success.
The Punisher, on the other hand, pays more Points than the Exterminator and gives up the Exterminator's Duality in order to do one Role just a tiny bit better when the Enemy is within striking range for his Melta Weapons.
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Post by Jackal-0311 on Aug 22, 2011 19:25:00 GMT -5
The thing about AirCav, though, is that the Valk and Vendetta let you do end-runs on a lot of the conventions and expectations on which regular 40K is founded. It's fragile, but because it lets you do something completely different, you can use that as a springboard to success. The Punisher, on the other hand, pays more Points than the Exterminator and gives up the Exterminator's Duality in order to do one Role just a tiny bit better when the Enemy is within striking range for his Melta Weapons. Well..once again a more senior IG has spoken wisdom to me! LOL! Story of my life. Never thought of it that way...much to learn I have. It may not bring anything new to the table, but, with the right enemy and proper support list it should bring the pain....but maybe I'm just overly optimistic. |
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Post by Wraelis on Aug 23, 2011 3:18:40 GMT -5
I used to try the punisher. Cool idea for a tank. Used Pask in it to deal the hurt to my tyranid buddy's monstrous creatures. Actually did a decent job. Wasn't amazing, i wish the range was a tad longer, but it did OK.
That being said, i've started to use the exterminator... Oh how i love that tank. It's cheaper, has better range, 'splodes transports good, and my friend has stopped fielding his hive tyrant because i can usually kill it by turn two.
So while the punisher can be fun to use (and it's definitely a good lookin' tank), it just doesn't do enough for the points. If you need to take down monsters, light vehicles, and pickin' down the hordes... I'd say take the exterminator. And on a closing note of comparison, while the punisher is packing 20 shots, the exterminator has probably been hitting stuff for probably about 2 turns longer.
Have fun, play stuff on your own, just throwing in my experience.
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Post by Laughing Man on Aug 23, 2011 3:27:17 GMT -5
I find if i want to deal with hordes i prefer to use either
A hellhound or two
a standard russ or exterminator
or some artillery manticores are fantastic horde smashers.
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Post by tobacco on Oct 12, 2011 7:53:41 GMT -5
The Punisher cannon itself never made much sense to me... That cannon has 2/3 the range, the same firepower, and worse AP than a heavy bolter? It should really be like S6 AP4 or S5 AP3 with 36" range at least.
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Post by majorspeirs on Oct 18, 2011 7:35:13 GMT -5
I've glanced at this thread at various stages in its lifetime and noted two basic points:
- It has been established that according to the maths that the Punisher is the least reliable of the Russ varients. This is generally corroborated by experience.
- It has also been established from experience that many people enjoy using it for various reasons, ranging from it suits their playing style, to rolling lots of dice is fun.
As far as I'm concerned it should be a case of live and let live. If you don't want to use the Punisher, nobody is making you. If you want to use it, have a blast, just don't try and argue the maths, because you'll be wrong.
I personally have not used the punisher, however I am going to ensure that my WIP Exterminator has the option for this gun. Why? Because I think that it would be fun to try out.
Something along these lines has probably already been mentioned in this thread, but I think it needs to be re-stated.
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Post by Wraelis on Oct 18, 2011 11:21:13 GMT -5
Definitely fun to use. I think I would use it again if it was cheaper in points cost
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