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Post by krasimirova on Jan 12, 2011 6:06:47 GMT -5
Do you think that the punisher would be better as it is at its current points cost if they moved it from heavy support to fast attack? Fast answer, No... Slow answer, Move it down from being 185 points a pop to around 150, it is the worst Leman we have, so it is a bit strange that it is also the 3. most expensive thing we have in the codex... And if you moved it into the fast attack spots, think about how it would turn out if we could field 18 AV 14 tanks in our codex FOC..? Not even Spacewolves are this broken, almost thou...
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Post by Paradill on Jan 13, 2011 14:44:41 GMT -5
The thought of 18 AV 14 tanks has nearly turned me away from the path of the massed infantry assault wave I've been dreaming of. In response to the punisher question (I.E. is it worth it) The short answer: No. The long answer: Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
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Post by Shostak(AWOL) on Feb 24, 2011 17:25:17 GMT -5
I think it could be quite useful with sponson plasma cannons. Use the Gatling cannon as an area denial/physcological weapon, and let the plasma cannons give it some high powered range with AP to compensate for the Gatling Cannon's no AP. This could make it more flexible, able to tackle hordes and MEQs- but would be expensive.
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Post by Julian Sharps on Feb 24, 2011 21:31:44 GMT -5
Actually, it occurred to me that the Punisher would be fantastic against Dark Eldar units with Shadow Fields (since the unit must roll all of its invulnerable saves sequentially, and if it fails even one it loses it for the rest of the game).
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Post by emptyhat on Feb 25, 2011 0:33:53 GMT -5
Probably good against anything with invulnerable saves/cover since rolling several times is better/worse than escaping a more powerful template blast by rolling once (per model).
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Post by Gabriel Lupus on Feb 26, 2011 16:15:11 GMT -5
You'd think that but, in theory at least, something like the Exterminator is at least as good and cheaper. They (the Exterminator autocannons) also have that useful AP that make it useful in other roles too.
It's one of those units that seem great when you come up with them, but suddenly require lot's of careful testing and refining to get right. I'd suggest that maybe in the next codex - or the one after - it may be improved somehow (if it's kept at all that is...)
P.S. this is not my whinge/whine that we need a new codex, or even that I am at all contemplating what could be in the next guard codexes. I like the codex we have. Long may it live
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Post by krasimirova on Feb 26, 2011 16:39:51 GMT -5
P.S. this is not my whinge/whine that we need a new codex, or even that I am at all contemplating what could be in the next guard codexes. I like the codex we have. Long may it live Hear Hear..!
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Post by Beav on Mar 1, 2011 4:16:50 GMT -5
I think that the punisher should have rending, along the same reasons the Ass Can has rending That would make it fun-fun time
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Post by Trickstick on Mar 1, 2011 7:49:07 GMT -5
P.S. this is not my whinge/whine that we need a new codex, or even that I am at all contemplating what could be in the next guard codexes. I like the codex we have. Long may it live Hear Hear..! Yeah,we have many years ahead of us yet. We still have to go through the fun, under powered phase again. I never understand the desire to put Pask in a punisher. Sure, you get bs4 but you have to stay still to get the full benefit. Staying still with only a 24" range seems like painting a giant "kick me" sign on your tank. Rending would be good but probably a little over powered. Rending 20 would make people cry.
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Post by Walrus on Mar 1, 2011 8:32:43 GMT -5
Rending would be good but probably a little over powered. Rending 20 would make people cry. Rending 20 would cause multiple mangasms
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Post by krasimirova on Mar 1, 2011 12:23:30 GMT -5
Mangasms... Great word.. Gonna write that down.. *Walks away mumbling..*
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Post by emptyhat on Mar 1, 2011 15:51:30 GMT -5
It's one of those units that seem great when you come up with them, but suddenly require lot's of careful testing and refining to get right. I'd suggest that maybe in the next codex - or the one after - it may be improved somehow (if it's kept at all that is...) At least it fits with the Punisher's fluff, it is the new kid on the block story wise isn't it?
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Post by treadiculous on Apr 20, 2011 4:10:03 GMT -5
I keep fielding my Punisher, and as I have very low expectations, it hasn't failed yet... so far its average is about 3 infantry... per game... I LOVE IT!!!... its soooooooooo kak!... horde killer: NO!
It has the advantage that opponents leave it alone while they take out the real threats like demolishers etc so it survive longer.. but even then its useless.. so far it hasn't been damaged... no weapon destroyed or immobilised at all...!!..
So, a mobile block of cover... thats what its good for.. and maybe if there was an army of gretchin it might do something ... though tank shock would probably be better!..
Hmm.. maybe I should swap the heavy bolters for heavy flamers and charge it forward more...
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Post by sj on Apr 20, 2011 11:21:57 GMT -5
[quote author=treadiculous board=Tanks thread=10860 Hmm.. maybe I should swap the heavy bolters for heavy flamers and charge it forward more...[/quote]
I like having a HF in the LR hull. Just the last game i had one in my Executioner and i used it to clear some Kroots from ruins. I did also use that Executioner cannon, but not the sponsons.
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Post by sirbebox on Apr 20, 2011 12:31:02 GMT -5
I think the punisher is useless. but would make sense to make it rends yet that would make it over powering. or atleast give it pinning since me personally I dont care if it was shooting paint balls it would make me keep my head down...... owe my god punishers do shoot paintballs it makes sense now thats why there so week
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Post by Empirespy on Apr 20, 2011 15:29:30 GMT -5
I think that the punisher is Not only does it work on a killy level, but it scares the hell out of your opponent. I've heard people say that it looks good on paper but doesn't perform, but it has two good points, one, look at math-hammer; GEQ, 8 wounds and fails 5, MEQ 6 wounds fails 2 and finally TEQ 6 wounds fails 1. so you can see it is reasonable effective, great against numerous lightly armored foes. The second reason is that it can affect your opponent in two main ways, either they are terrified and try to pour all his firepower and effort into killing it, or they ignore it thinking their armour saves will protect them. The first means your other units are reasonably untouched, the latter the punisher will punish them for their ignorance!
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Apr 20, 2011 15:33:05 GMT -5
That's the thing. Math hammer out a Russ, it'll be just as good or better for less points (save maybe when hitting Termies), or a Demolisher, since that has comparable range to a Punisher. It does have the scare factor though, no denying that. Everyone freaks when they see that gatling gun.
Reds
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Post by Shostak(AWOL) on Apr 20, 2011 16:06:37 GMT -5
@ empirespy. The thing with the Punisher is that there's other things that do it's role better. IMO it's a preety cool tank. Then I look at the points cost. For the cost of a bare bones punisher I could get myself an bare bones MBT and almost afford a commie as well. And if you're going to Math-hammer it, then think how much damage an MBT will do to anything barring termies at a much longer range. In large games I might just take one for the fear factor, but i would never rely on it.
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Post by treadiculous on Apr 21, 2011 4:08:03 GMT -5
"It does have the scare factor though, no denying that. Everyone freaks when they see that gatling gun."..
Yes, undoubtedly I agree... and if you can spend the game scaring people with out firing it you'll do okay, but I have found that as soon as you've fired it once, your opponent realises its pathetic and then overcomes their fear of it...
It does provide a steady base for 3 heavy bolters, and can block LOS very well.. so it does have some use.. (I run mine with 2 demolishers so it can mop up the survivors from the blast templates.. but it rarely manages to achieve this...)
1 punisher or 3 chimera or 40 guardsmen...
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Post by Machine Gun Kelly on Apr 23, 2011 7:19:31 GMT -5
I will stand to my point that the Punisher cannon should have been fitted on a Chimera chassis and been presented as a Hellhound variant instead. And that Punisher cannons should be mountable on Valkyries (one on each wing for twin linked).
It should not have been mounted on a battle tank chassis, that is just silly.
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Post by RedsandRoyals on Apr 23, 2011 9:18:52 GMT -5
I will stand to my point that the Punisher cannon should have been fitted on a Chimera chassis and been presented as a Hellhound variant instead. And that Punisher cannons should be mountable on Valkyries (one on each wing for twin linked). It should not have been mounted on a battle tank chassis, that is just silly. This, a hundred times this. I would gladly pay 140pts for this mounted on a fast chimera chassis. I think FW's idea to put them on a Vulture is great. Reds
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Post by Trickstick on Apr 23, 2011 13:51:50 GMT -5
The punisher really isn't as bad as people think.
It can lay down a similar amount of firepower as 40 guardsmen (edit: without orders) at 24", costs about the same, and can do so whilst moving. It takes up far less space and can also hurt T7 things. It is immune to small arms and can give cover. Just because it is one of the worst russes doesn't make it terrible. That is like having a go at someone for being the worst olympic 400m runner, they still kick arse.
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connor
Captain
who needs samuria?
Posts: 167
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Post by connor on Apr 23, 2011 23:40:25 GMT -5
uummm... this is probably a stupid question, but doesnt the Leman with Pask get the BS4 even if he did move? i thought he just got the plus one to penatration and reroll monstorous creature roles if he didnt move.
...or am i being stupid again and "full benefit" means that?
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Post by Trickstick on Apr 23, 2011 23:55:49 GMT -5
Yes, I was referring to the penetration and reroll. Not too useful with a punisher I suppose but you are sacrificing a large part of what makes Pask good if you move.
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Post by The Hawk! on Apr 24, 2011 12:20:48 GMT -5
i used my punisher twice over tis weekend and i have come up with some criteria about it..... 1. It hardly hits anything by the end of all roles T.T... 20 shots, i got a max of 11 hits out of it which dropped to 8 wounds.... on a squad of ork boyz 2. The gatler is hopeless against enemy armour.... end of... though if your sneaky like me, you still fit a lascannon in the hull to deal with enemy arnour . 3. it is very hard to make points back for it unless youre fighting rediculously large horde squads Final some up.... i wouldnt folks... but i'm still gonna use mine cuz i loves it
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