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Post by aeonian on Jan 11, 2009 0:29:23 GMT -5
Here's what I think, so listen up you guys!  Storm Trooper platoons: taken as an elite choice, consists of a storm trooper officer (a Senior Officer with 'pace) and a 5 man storm trooper command squad (yes, 5, not 4). Along with this, you may take 2-4 storm trooper squads, equipped as follows: BS (4), WS (4), S (3), T (3), W (1), I (3), A (1), Ld (9), Sv (4+) Hellgun: range: 24" S:3 Ap:5 Type: assault 2 OR range: 24" S:3 Ap:5 Type: heavy 2, ignores cover saves Hellpistol is the just as at pistol range and rate of fire Frag & krak grenades, targeters (re-roll 1's, like sharpshooters), deep strike & infiltrate, access to chimera and valkyrie May take 2x special weapons from the following list: meltagun (10), plasma gun (10), grenade launcher (8), flamer (5), heavy stubber (12 points. can fire as an assault weapon with 18" range) Weapon upgrad: auxiliary grenade launcher this is a special underslung grenade launcher that fires a very small, though more accurate, anti-personnel grenade. This is in additon to the hellgun. is NOT limited to a single shot like a normal combi-weapon. this costs 5 points, and may only be given to one man, including the sergeant if you so desire. Rane: 18" S:3 Ap:- Type: assault 1, small blast, d6 scatter (as apposed to 2d6) |
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Post by inquisitor0sylver on Jan 11, 2009 3:36:25 GMT -5
Ok, I again restate that this debate is rather pointless. Even if anyone from GW actually bothers to check out this site, the final decision for the codex was made a few months ago. In next month's white dwarf we should get a preview, and I'm rather certain that they'll alude to what the stormies changes will be.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2009 4:09:28 GMT -5
BLASPHEMY!!!
I suggest that we add inquisitor0sylver to the ranks of GW employees that we crucify for being evil. How dare he suggest that this glorious forum is not Holy enough to be taken as divine guidance by the writers at GW. Of course GW should defer their decisions to us, for are we not an angry group of teenagers and men with a desire to lay the enemies of the Emperor at his feet!?!
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GuardsmanPatch
Captain
They took away my Bolter, and gave me a flashlight!
Posts: 212
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Post by GuardsmanPatch on Jan 18, 2009 6:10:06 GMT -5
Absolutely, Reichsiege. The cannons of pointless and unnecessary debate are the cornerstone of our civilisation. If we didn't talk things to death, we would actually get something done in our lives! I think the new storm troopers should all be women, match them against the Howling Banshees! Sorry, that last point was spurious.  |
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Post by ReWolf on Jan 18, 2009 13:09:02 GMT -5
I think the new storm troopers should all be women, match them against the Howling Banshees! Sorry, that last point was spurious. You have my sword! [Axe, bow ,etc] |
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Post by Willem on Feb 17, 2009 23:52:13 GMT -5
i think hell guns should be have a lot of weak shots ore one riley strong one
i figure organs are our close combat troops and stormeys are our ranged ones and ratlings dont count because they have a difrent skill
by the way can we have the terminator
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Post by verminard on Feb 18, 2009 11:23:00 GMT -5
If hellgunsare the best that the imperium can muster it reasons that they should be on par with a boltgun. Seeing as a boltgun is an easy cheap upgrade to Sergeants in your force one would assume that you could get 10 together and hand them to your Storm Troopers. So, that being said hellguns should either be a BETTER rapid fire weapon, or be completely different than a boltgun making it an apples and oranges comparison.
To make it more powerful than a boltgun give it the sniper template. Wounds on a 4+, and rending. I mean seriously, you have those things hooked up to a huge backpack generator that they carry around. Not as big as SM portable Lazcannon, but still an impressive piece of equipment.
To make it different than a boltgun maybe have it be a short range assault weapon that you can choose the strength vs the penetration. For example it can be str 6 ap - /str 5 ap 6 / str 4 ap 5 / str 3 ap 4 / str 2 ap 3 or str 1 ap 2. It could represent them turning the power up or making it a focused beam instead of a short pattern lazer.
Also, on the note of Storm Troopers being future Commisars. It would be cool if you could upgrade a member in the squad to a Commisar. That would give a nice CC punch and some fantastic leadership to the Storm Troopers and fit nicely with the fluff.
And for all the marines that complain about hellguns. They can suck it. If we at best get a squad or two with some nice rapid fire weapons then hurray for us. They still get a boltgun on their standard trooper and we still get a lasgun on our standard trooper. Plus, even if there was a better weapon than a boltgun the marines probably wouldn't use it. Boltguns are the emperors sacred weapon. Its like a Samurai and his Katana, they are not going to use something else even if given the option. The Imperium has the money and the ability to arm the Storm Troopers with a great arsenal of weapons and it should defiantly be represented in the tabletop game.
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Post by aeonian on Feb 18, 2009 13:36:37 GMT -5
I agree with every point that Verminard has made above, however a bolter is not a cheap weapon. It costs seven points, because you first have to upgrade to a veteran sergeant that doesn't even really get you much. In fluff terms, an Imperial Guard sergeant with a bolter has probably been a veteran of hundreds of battles, and the only reason that they can have a bolter is because:
1. they find one
2. they bought a civilian pattern bolter off duty
3. they picked it up off a dead officer
Bolters, in fluff terms, are incredibly expensive and rare, and hellguns, although better at punching through armour, are rather unreliable. Their power pack often malfunctions, and they are heavy and cumbersome
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Post by Willem on Feb 18, 2009 14:36:49 GMT -5
so they should be RANGE 24 S5 AP3 ASALT 1 gets hot
or RANGE 24 S3 AP- ASALT 4 gets hot
this incorparats some of the things sed above
think they should be strong so the stormeys can deal with CSM or weak and lots of shots to deal with mutants.
as for close combat they should be I 3 WS 4 the bulky armor slows them down but they are well traind fighters.
they would be like 15 points but they could deap strike for free ;D
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Post by aeonian on Feb 18, 2009 14:45:14 GMT -5
no no no - gets hot is too anti-beneficial. When I said malfunction, i didn't mean that they blow people up!  this is what I was thinking for Stormies/Kasrkins: WS: 4 BS: 4 S: 3 T: 3 W: 1 I: 4 A: 2 Ld: 9 Sv: 4+ Weapons: Hellgun, Frag & krak Grenades Rules: Deep strike, Infiltrate, Iron Discipline, Combat squads Hellgun: Range: 24" S: 3 AP: 5 Type: Assault 2, Rending |
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Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on Feb 18, 2009 15:04:56 GMT -5
a 24 inch assault weapon?
I say 18 inches tops.
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Post by Machine Gun Kelly on Feb 18, 2009 15:33:31 GMT -5
I agree with the notion that stormtroopers are the only real Elite unit IG have. SO they should get loads of options to really kit them out for their intended battlefield role.
One thing that they should not get the option to choose are veteran sgt. They should be veteran to begin with. If their sgt can be upgraded, atleast he (or hopefully she, why are there no women in the IG ranks) should end up with the stats for SO.
One HW I miss for the stormies are the sniperrifle. It fits the IG specialforces to have a sniperrifle. I could also accept that they get the option of a missile launcher.
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Post by Willem on Feb 18, 2009 21:14:53 GMT -5
ok how about they all get flamers that could be usfel in a tight spot
or they can all have hevy wepons for there normal upgrade cost. just think of watt 10 melta guns could do
lets think
around 7 hit
3 penatrate armor 14 1 glanses
you will get like 2 destroyd resalts
this could reak havoc even on a super hevy tank or at least blow off a few wepons
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Post by verminard on Feb 18, 2009 22:15:29 GMT -5
One thing that they should not get the option to choose are veteran sgt. They should be veteran to begin with. If their sgt can be upgraded, atleast he (or hopefully she, why are there no women in the IG ranks) should end up with the stats for SO. I still stand by my theory of the upgraded Sergent should be a baseline Commissar. That would be a HUGE advantage in CC and LD tests if you had a Commissar leading the way for your stormies. |
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Post by Willem on Feb 18, 2009 22:26:06 GMT -5
sounds grate
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Feb 19, 2009 2:04:41 GMT -5
I see Iron Shepherd has come around to my way of thinking on the stormie debate. WS4 I4 A2 and assault weapons- a nice, rounded profile that dosen't make them OP but does make them elite. It also deals with the problem of Grenadiers in hardened fighter regiments, where you have your elite of your army being WS3 and your regulars WS4.
Rending or AP4- either or both is good. AP4 makes them dangerous against a whole gamut of things (aspects, orks, tau, other stormies, etc), wheras rending makes them a serious threat against other elite troops.
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Post by Inquisitor Lord Graenis on Feb 19, 2009 6:21:45 GMT -5
WS: 4
BS: 4
S: 3
T: 3
W: 1
I: 4
A: 2
Ld: 9
Sv: 4+
Weapons: Hellgun and Targeter, Frag & krak Grenades
Rules: Deep strike, Infiltrate, Iron Discipline, Combat squads
Options:
3 members of the squad may replace their Hellgun with a plasmagun, meltagun, flamer, grenade launcher or sniper rifle
2 members of the squad may form a heavy weapons team and take a Heavy bolter, Autocannon, lascannon or missile launcher
Hellgun:
Range: 18" S: 3 AP: 4 Type: Assault 2, Rending
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Feb 19, 2009 6:38:28 GMT -5
And now ILG has converted to the raucous call of the Thunder.....this goes well.....
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Post by Willem on Feb 19, 2009 10:12:19 GMT -5
i dont like the hevy wepons idea there shock troops and a lascanon or hevy bolter would slow them down.
i got a grate idea how about a storm lasgun its 2 lasguns bolted together AKA hell gun
the rending sounds grate but i riley think they should be strenth 4 that just gives them such a beter chance with orks and other tuff infentrey. and they should all get melta bombs fore free
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Feb 19, 2009 11:55:43 GMT -5
Offical news: Hellguns are now AP3. They remain rapidfire, and stormies have been downgraded to Ld 7. But AP3 is good/ Very good. Bad news for the space smurf players.
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Post by Ymmot (M.I.A) on Feb 19, 2009 12:21:00 GMT -5
wait, what?
really?
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Post by Willem on Feb 19, 2009 12:46:24 GMT -5
are you shur
if onley they were strenth 4 then we could hert carnafexs unles they were given extended carapus then you nead lascanons and plasma guns to hert them
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Post by Inquisitor Lord Graenis on Feb 19, 2009 12:49:44 GMT -5
yep. there was a leak on the french site, and it had stats.
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Post by Willem on Feb 19, 2009 13:22:12 GMT -5
show us the stats please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please please
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Post by verminard on Feb 19, 2009 13:23:19 GMT -5
Holy Cow!!!
AP3!!!!
Thank the emperor! That should put some fear back into the storm troopers corner. Plus, LD is irrelivent anyhow, just get yourself an upgraded character in that unit or a vox (assuming there is a way to do that in the first place) and your set to go. Plus, how many troop units will survive long enough against that gun to have a fair chance at assaulting anyhow.
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