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Post by Helmian (M.I.A) on Mar 18, 2009 17:42:00 GMT -5
My entire regiment is going to be valk-mounted, if I can scrape together the finances. "We'll come in low out of the rising sun, and when were about a klick out, we'll put on the music!" "Music?" "Yeah, I use Wagner- scares the hell out of the smokes. My boys love it!" Enemies of the Emperor, beware..... I love that movie and i'm going to do the same
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Mar 19, 2009 13:42:01 GMT -5
My entire regiment is going to be valk-mounted, if I can scrape together the finances. "We'll come in low out of the rising sun, and when were about a klick out, we'll put on the music!" "Music?" "Yeah, I use Wagner- scares the hell out of the smokes. My boys love it!" Enemies of the Emperor, beware..... I love that movie and i'm going to do the same Y'know, you might actually be worth having as an apprentice...
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Post by aeonian on Mar 19, 2009 17:14:13 GMT -5
Too late, Thunder, he already graduated @zero: you are wrong, but correct also. They don't get hot, they fire at Ap3 all the time, and not like Bladestorm at all. They're also not called Hellguns (but I'll always call them that ) they're called a "Hot-Las" which is the dumbest name I've ever heard! So, instead of the normal Ap5 lasgun, stormies and 'kins now get Ap3 Rapid fire 18" rifles. A good enough trade off in my book
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2009 18:18:47 GMT -5
Fair enough. Yeah whomever thought that hot-las would be a cool name is high, drunk or both. And yeah I would be very happy with that trade up
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Post by aeonian on Mar 19, 2009 20:55:58 GMT -5
Or tripping? Yes, I agree it's a terrible name. Also, the less experienced writters who want to write a 40k novel will call it a hot-las and thing's wont be the same with new novels coming out (but you can be gauranteed that Abnet and McNeil will still call them Hellguns and whoever else is a veteran...)
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Post by John_Galt (M.I.A) on Mar 19, 2009 23:06:06 GMT -5
If we're on Valhalla is it Lukewarm-las? Ahahahahaha! *shoots self in face for heresy*
Agreed, it's a dumb name. I'm guessing the got the idea from the snipers "hot-shot" cells.
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Post by aeonian on Mar 20, 2009 0:00:02 GMT -5
Yes, well I'm highly considering forgetting about my future career in Death Metal to go and work for GW so that I can make sure that some retard doesn't get command of the codex!
*mumbles* fornicaters...
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Mar 20, 2009 2:52:58 GMT -5
He graduated your rather enfeebled school of Guard-ing. That is to say, he understands the basics of the Art of War, I'll give him that. But as for the true, darkest arts of combat....well, let us say that some things are well hidden.
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Post by aeonian on Mar 20, 2009 3:02:34 GMT -5
ENFEEBLED!?! That's just plain rude, Thunder! I'll have you know I know quite a bit about Imp. Guard and what they do and how they win and how they fight and how they fight dirty and why they fight dirty! Didn't you know?
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Post by jazzadazza on Mar 21, 2009 4:44:08 GMT -5
Im going to Fully Valk mine too if i have to and get the money..
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Post by Willem on Mar 21, 2009 8:32:56 GMT -5
that will cost a lot of points and limit the number of troops you can have
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Post by aeonian on Mar 21, 2009 23:15:18 GMT -5
I heard confirmation today that you can indeed have a platoon of storm troopers if your H.Q is upgraded to a storm trooper. Whether or not this is for your whole army (meaning if you upgrade a troops platoon you gets stormies...) I have no idea, but i know that for the H.Q command platoon, you can equip them with hellguns (I refuse to call them hot-las...) and 'pace and then take up to 2 squads of stormies as part of the H.Q command platoon.
There's 2 extra squads of 10 with Ap3 weapons and in valks that cost as much as a marine for you right there. I suppose small numbers won't matter when their weapon punches through everything except termy armour and they ride in a valkyrie, but it still perturbs me that their point cost is so damn high...I was hoping, when I heard the confirmation of Ap3 rifles, that they would at most go up to 13 points, which is as much as a scout.
Honestly, frag grenades, krak grenades, 'pace, a hellgun w/ targeter, 4 BS, and only 7 Ld is not worth a space marine, it's just not. Cover saves are EVERYWHERE in 5th, and there is rarely a unit that I have ever fired at that does not get a damn cover save from something, so what's the point? It's just like the old hell gun against a target with a 4+ save like firewarriors!
3+ is not that much better than 4+ when you're only wounding the target on a 5+...marines will not suffer too terribly in this.
I suppose catching them at the right moment will be the trick! You have to intercept them with the valk when they least expect it!
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Post by scythexv8 on Mar 22, 2009 14:32:41 GMT -5
I'm not very much steeped in the Lore of 40K as my Guardsmen brethren in this site, but I've been playing Guard for quite a few years now. If I recall well, the most recent codex states that they have been "trained to conduct covert operations and spearhead assaults". To me this translates that they should be a multipurpose unit with pretty much custom equipment kits for the job, like modern day special forces.
Having read the new stormtrooper (RUMORED) rules, I'll admit that I feel rather cheated. Not only do the stormies get a point cost raise to that of a tactical SMurf, but they also lose a leadership point(except for the Sergeant). They do get infiltrate and deep strike as standard along with the AP3 hellguns, as well as hellpistol and ccw which does give them mobility and enables the possibility to shoot and charge, but at ws3 and i3. Furthermore, you need to pay an extra 30pts to get them a 'mission' that gives them extra rules( which would be very useful and worth the points if the stormies were a good unit...). I don't know if they'll get new targeter rules but, as another poster noted, these are useless in their current form.
The problems should be obvious. AP3 doesn't really make them all that flexible in a universe where the slightest pebble confers a save and the most common cover save gets to be 4+, not to mention Feel No Pain, Cybork Body or refractor field 5+ inv save, and so on. Furthermore, excluding their bs of 4, all other stats are the exact same as a standard guardsman(you know, the guys you can now buy at 4 or 5 points...), making the stormies seem to be like sharpshooter guardsmen who get alot of kit rather than special forces.
For that point cost, they should definitely get 1 point to ws and i, which would keep well with the concept; From what I know in the real world a common soldier doesn't receive nearly as much close combat training as a special operations commando, who can incapacitate a non specialist opponent with ease(Not to mention THESE stormies live in a universe where close combat is a normal battle function, unlike our world, and should therefore receive extra training in it.). They should also keep their leadership up to 8 reflecting their elite status. The sergeant needn't be there for the extra leadership point but rather to be able to give Orders to their squad, which I believe is much more reasonable.
As for the main issue, instead of making them pseudo anti-heavy infantry troops(s3!) they should have flexibility to choose their firepower according to their opponent, either a pre-paid before the battle or similar to the Sternguard Marines on a turn to turn basis. Since they carry the weapon power source on their backs, they should have settings, like a quick power conversion to multiple weak laser shots fewer stronger ones such as these(for example): range 24" s3 ap6 assault 3 or range 18" s4 ap5 rapid fire.
I also think that both thoughts I've seen other members express concerning s4 shotguns and range 18" assault3 heavy stubbers are perfectly logical special weapon options.
If the rumors are true, I don't believe I can see the place for such a unit in my forces, except in very limited numbers and for a select few case scenarios; the cost simply can't be justified. I'll probably turn to veterans in 'shells'...
ps1. I really don't understand why GW refuses to give s4 weapons to even elite commandos of the guard in a universe where the Imperium can afford to give power armour and bolters to entire Orders of Adeptus sororitas. Seems more like they're biased rather than trying to keep the theme of the guard...
ps2. Someday, a very angry Guard general will purchase a shotgun, go into their HQ building and 'demonstrate' to the games' designers that "A shotgun really is a s4 weapon"!
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Post by jazzadazza on Mar 22, 2009 17:08:52 GMT -5
I heard confirmation today that you can indeed have a platoon of storm troopers if your H.Q is upgraded to a storm trooper. Whether or not this is for your whole army (meaning if you upgrade a troops platoon you gets stormies...) I have no idea, but i know that for the H.Q command platoon, you can equip them with hellguns (I refuse to call them hot-las...) and 'pace and then take up to 2 squads of stormies as part of the H.Q command platoon. There's 2 extra squads of 10 with Ap3 weapons and in valks that cost as much as a marine for you right there. I suppose small numbers won't matter when their weapon punches through everything except termy armour and they ride in a valkyrie, but it still perturbs me that their point cost is so damn high...I was hoping, when I heard the confirmation of Ap3 rifles, that they would at most go up to 13 points, which is as much as a scout. Honestly, frag grenades, krak grenades, 'pace, a hellgun w/ targeter, 4 BS, and only 7 Ld is not worth a space marine, it's just not. Cover saves are EVERYWHERE in 5th, and there is rarely a unit that I have ever fired at that does not get a damn cover save from something, so what's the point? It's just like the old hell gun against a target with a 4+ save like firewarriors! 3+ is not that much better than 4+ when you're only wounding the target on a 5+...marines will not suffer too terribly in this. I suppose catching them at the right moment will be the trick! You have to intercept them with the valk when they least expect it! If what you say is true im looking ford to it now. ps2. Someday, a very angry Guard general will purchase a shotgun, go into their HQ building and 'demonstrate' to the games' designers that "A shotgun really is a s4 weapon"! ........
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Post by Helmian (M.I.A) on Mar 22, 2009 17:26:56 GMT -5
i can't belive it! they are nerfing stormies! NOOOOOO!!!!! they aren't elite, they are regular guys who have recived some extra training and some fancy gear *shakes fist at GW HQ*
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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Mar 22, 2009 17:43:54 GMT -5
K guys I'll call for an ambulance for you all... The codex isn't released yet and the rumours are everything than confirmed. Calm down and wait until May 2nd... I'm getting really fed up on all the whining about what could be changed and done in the new codex on here. If you don't like it, quit the game. This is the best way of showing that you don't support the choices of the developers. Otherwise please just quit whining and grow up. Thanks
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Post by Inquisitor Lord Graenis on Mar 22, 2009 18:41:00 GMT -5
the codex is in print. And has been sent to GW stores already in their 'black boxes' and as such, people are reading it. Which is what this current batch of rumors is from.
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Post by dragoon6 on Mar 22, 2009 22:07:33 GMT -5
Still, I'm waiting at least untill the White Dwarf featuring us comes out to scream foul.
Dragoon 6
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Post by norge187 on Mar 22, 2009 22:26:31 GMT -5
well unfortunately once we all get the codex's and see our hearts possibly destroyed and cry foul is it really going to matter....
Not likely we will do what we have been doing for years. Adapting and doing the best we can with the help and advice from others. I think some things are going to be a let down, and others won't be. All in all we will all learn to make the codex work in our favor.
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Post by dragoon6 on Mar 22, 2009 22:36:24 GMT -5
Hear, hear! after all, it's a guardsmens' lot to work with the tools he is given, not the best ones for the job. We've been doing it for years already, and by god, if nessesary, I'll do it for prides ' sake for another 8 or more, if I must.
Dragoon 6
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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Mar 23, 2009 1:08:53 GMT -5
I know that ILG but except anyone of you is a redshirt I wouldn't believe a thing and even when one of you were a redshirt I wouldn't believe a thing. The codex is like you said printed and and some more versions are in print so that they can be sent out timely to May 2nd. If you whine or not it won't change a damn little thing, except that around 20 billions of threads that are about rumours would finally die down. Why does this forum needs that many threads about the same rumour anyways? Around 75% of the threads are about the same rumours and contain the same comments. Actually this would be the time for the moddissars to step in, delete, merge, and lock threads as this is actually a sort of spam and needs to be controlled. Actually you can't even set your foot nowhere without stumbling over IG codex rumours anymore, be it in the General News or the Rumours Section (where it only should belong into). There are people out there who don't want to read about the rumours at all and want to wait and see what the new codex brings. When you guys like crying like little kids so much please try to do that in one thread that isn't for real discussion and posting of rumours as the use of IG Codex rumour threads is getting far out of hand
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Post by Rolling Thunder on Mar 23, 2009 3:50:30 GMT -5
I think the answer is simple- because Woz, I or any other marauding mods don't feel that there's any harm in letting people have their frenzied orgy of rumour-mongering. We'll simply purge the rumour board once the dex is released.
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Post by scythexv8 on Mar 23, 2009 3:51:26 GMT -5
well unfortunately once we all get the codex's and see our hearts possibly destroyed and cry foul is it really going to matter.... Not likely we will do what we have been doing for years. Adapting and doing the best we can with the help and advice from others. I think some things are going to be a let down, and others won't be. All in all we will all learn to make the codex work in our favor. I agree.That's probably what will happen and anyways you can't have everything going your way.
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Post by knight (M.I.A) on Mar 23, 2009 4:58:48 GMT -5
RT, this seems to be the only board that allows rumouring in every part of the board and in hundred of threads? What is that difficult to move posts important posts that are important and good for the discussion, and delete the other threads. At least get them out of other parts of the boards that aren't called rumours section. There might be people who don't want to read all the rumouring and whining. Those who want to read about the rumours will get in the rumour section, those who don't want to know won't have to read about it elsewhere and won't get their fun and fantasies getting spoiled by the people whining.
PS: And yes I know what pain it is to move and delete threads, as I'm a mod on other boards that are even more active and require constant updating, but it is possible
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Post by Inquisitor Lord Graenis on Mar 23, 2009 6:26:41 GMT -5
If you dont want to talk rumors, don't come into the rumor section? and why are you insulting people for it.
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